My first archtop choice between Eastman AR371ce and AR810ce

[Falling_leaves]

Hi, I 'm a newbie and asking an annoying question to everyone about the choice on my first archtop.

I'm playing a Gibson SG with 57 classic neck and p94 bridge pup. I am looking for another hollow body guitar for a long run in my music study.

I can either buy a new AR371ce or used AR810ce.

But the question is :Would you recommend a 17 inches guitar w/ floating pup to a jazz newbie? Should I stick to a standard archtop such as AR371?

Thank you.

[clem_gael]

17" with a floater is also a standard archtop!

Both choices are good...but 2 different animals

If you're planing to gig a lot, got with the 371.
If you want a guitar with good acoustic qualities, go for the 810

[spiral]

Both choices are good...but 2 different animals

If you're planing to gig a lot, got with the 371.
If you want a guitar with good acoustic qualities, go for the 810

No better answer than that. I own a 371 and the acoustic cousin of the 810: it's a nice problem to have.

What kind of sound do you want? Will you have a chance to play both of them first?

[Falling_leaves]

I want something similar to tal farlow and L-5. So I can keep my guitar forever and I don't need to be jealous of others' expensive guitars.

In fact, I don't want the solid or semi-hollow sounds. Because i can made that sounds from my SG

More comparisons between the humbucker and floating pups are welcome.

Thank you!!

[Falling_leaves]

Also, I think there must be some difference to the tailpiece on these two model. Reliability???

[ooglybong]

The carved-top 810 with floater is usually going to be more feedback prone than the laminate body 371 at medium to higher levels. (If you're an archtop newbie, you might find this frustrating to some degree.) However, playing quietly at, say, a solo gig, etc. and amped up minimally should be fine either way.

IF all things are then equal at that point, then I'd go with whichever tone you prefer. Personally, I generally prefer the set humbucker sound over the floater sound but again that's just me. YMMV. Overall, I would think that the 371's set humbucker might yield a somewhat warmer tone than a floater, although, to my experience, the 371 still also has a surprisingly nice 'acoustic' quality to it when amped, esp compared to 175s I've played (which I find to be 'thicker' sounding—but I still like those, too).

In the end, I doubt you could go wrong with either one as long as you're able to personally try them out first.

Good luck. Hope this helps.

[Falling_leaves]

Thanks for your reply, I have a better understanding on those differences now.

[kris]

More acoustic sound is with floater pick up/also more trebble/.
Guitar with set humbucker can create darker sound/all clones of 175/.

Example of great sounding jazz box with floater is Elferink / Jesse van Ruller model/.This sound I like very much.
/there is single coil pickup with volume control mounted on the fingerrest/.

[spiral]

I want something similar to tal farlow and L-5. So I can keep my guitar forever and I don't need to be jealous of others' expensive guitars.

Have you considered an actual Tal Farlow Gibson? If that is truly your end goal, and you don't want to ever think about a better guitar again (or "be jealous" as you say) that seems like a pretty reasonable guitar to attain if you plan on keeping it forever. I just did a quick eBay / Gbase survey and there were plenty available, with quite a few in the $3-4k range—and some even less (keeping in mind that you can haggle with the GBase prices). I know that may double your budget (or quintuple if you get a cheap used Eastman) but it sounds like you want to make an investment.

Don't get me wrong, I love Eastmans, I own two (610 acoustic noncut, and 371), but I love them because I love those exact specs and sound. Just food for thought.

ooglybong and kris already gave good answers about the differences. I'll just add a full-size humbucker has bigger magnets (bigger magnetic field) so it's going to give you much more low end, which some hear as "less acoustic" and thicker. The floater has smaller magnets so is more focused in the high end, and to me, they are a little more "true" to the frequency range of the guitar when played acoustic. Neither is better than the other, it's really about your wants and needs.

Also, I think there must be some difference to the tailpiece on these two model. Reliability???

The are functionally the same. The "wooden" one is actually a brass tailpiece with a rosewood cap. This wood cap can muffle some of the overtones than you can get from a normal trapeze TP. They are both equally reliable.

I'm still wondering: will get a chance to play either one first? This would be really useful. Where are you located?

[2bornot2bop]

Having owned both the '371 and the '810, I loved the ease of playability of the '371. It almost felt as if it played smaller than a 16". But in the end, my ear instructed me which was the more preferable archtop for me. The 810's size allows it to project greater warmth, again, to my ear. By comparison, the '371's tone was much brighter, with more of an edge to it. My ear didn't care for that.

Still, the '371 is a lot of guitar for the price. However, at the price of used 810's, many of which have sold for less than $1k, my decision would be to buy an 810, replace the pup to a handwound KA, or a Bartolini, and never look back.

[Falling_leaves]

Hello, I m actually staying in Australia. Thanks your comment, it clarifies a lot of questions in my mind. I am deeply appreciated.

In fact, the price I got for both guitars is USD $820 for 371 and USD$ 1640 for a used 810.

In Aus, we are quite lucky as you guys in US. Anything above $1000 dollars, there is a 20-26% tax on those import goods.

If I can get a used 4k Tal Farlow from US, I may end up paying 5k for it. Although my teacher keep mentioning I should invest a Tal Farlow, I don’t want to spend too much money on my instrument. As a student, I should focus on my music study but not on musical instrument. As long as I have a quality archtop, I’ll be a happy man.

Thanks your suggestion.

[Falling_leaves]

Have you considered an actual Tal Farlow Gibson? If that is truly your end goal, and you don't want to ever think about a better guitar again (or "be jealous" as you say) that seems like a pretty reasonable guitar to attain if you plan on keeping it forever. I just did a quick eBay / Gbase survey and there were plenty available, with quite a few in the $3-4k range—and some even less (keeping in mind that you can haggle with the GBase prices). I know that may double your budget (or quintuple if you get a cheap used Eastman) but it sounds like you want to make an investment.

Don't get me wrong, I love Eastmans, I own two (610 acoustic noncut, and 371), but I love them because I love those exact specs and sound. Just food for thought.

ooglybong and kris already gave good answers about the differences. I'll just add a full-size humbucker has bigger magnets (bigger magnetic field) so it's going to give you much more low end, which some hear as "less acoustic" and thicker. The floater has smaller magnets so is more focused in the high end, and to me, they are a little more "true" to the frequency range of the guitar when played acoustic. Neither is better than the other, it's really about your wants and needs.



The are functionally the same. The "wooden" one is actually a brass tailpiece with a rosewood cap. This wood cap can muffle some of the overtones than you can get from a normal trapeze TP. They are both equally reliable.

I'm still wondering: will get a chance to play either one first? This would be really useful. Where are you located?

Hello, I m actually staying in Australia. Thanks your comment, it clarifies a lot of questions in my mind. I am deeply appreciated.

In fact, the price I got for both guitars is USD $820 for 371 and USD$ 1640 for a used 810.

In Aus, we are quite lucky as you guys in US. Anything above $1000 dollars, there is a 20-26% tax on those import goods.

If I can get a used 4k Tal Farlow from US, I may end up paying 5k for it. Although my teacher keep mentioning I should invest a Tal Farlow, I don’t want to spend too much money on my instrument. As a student, I should focus on my music study but not on musical instrument. As long as I have a quality archtop, I’ll be a happy man.

Thanks your suggestion.

[Chazmo]

Soundpure put a great video together to show the difference between floating and fixed pickup guitars:

Fixed (Set) vs. Floating Pickups in Jazz Archtop Guitars - YouTube

It all depends on the sound you want and, of course, the price difference.

[ooglybong]

...In fact, the price I got for both guitars is USD $820 for 371 and USD$ 1640 for a used 810... If I can get a used 4k Tal Farlow from US, I may end up paying 5k for it. Although my teacher keep mentioning I should invest a Tal Farlow, I don’t want to spend too much money on my instrument. As a student, I should focus on my music study but not on musical instrument. As long as I have a quality archtop, I’ll be a happy man.

I wouldn't feel guilty at all about buying the less expensive guitar in this case. IMO, the AR371 is a quality instrument, and, in all honesty, if I "had" to live with only one archtop guitar (perish the thought! ) I could probably be quite happy with "only" the '371. That's coming from someone with several pricier archtops already, but really... '371s are a great place to "start"—and then to even keep on going. (And besides, these are two different building techniques you're considering here; it might just be that your ear naturally gravitates towards the laminate '371 sound anyway.)

FYI, I just came across this glowing recent review (7/26/13) from Jazz Times about the Eastman AR371. It might help you in making a decision. FWIW, I've played several '371s over the past 18 months, and I'd say this review is spot on.

Jazz Instruments: Eastman Guitars? AR371CE - By Russell Carlson ? Jazz Articles

By the way, if you were possibly after some more versatility, I'd also recommend looking into the AR372, the two-pickup version.

Hope this helps.

[Falling_leaves]

Thank you guys. Have a nice weekend~

[Jabberwocky]

I would like to give you the suggestion to look at one other archtop guitar: a’JuƒEƒH[ƒLƒ“v‚̃EƒFƒuƒTƒCƒg‚ւ悤� ��±‚»I Look at Archtop Tribute. These Japanese-made archtops are replicas of Gibson's Golden Age ES-175s. I would get something like the AT102 with a humbucker. It has a thin poly-whatever finish.

You could get Meestursparkle Japan Guitar Shop Middleman Service to buy one on your behalf and post it to you. JapanPost EMS to Oz costs about JPY12000 to JPY15000.