-
I picked up a used, in like-new condition, Fender Champion 600 amp recently for a song. It sounds okay for a small practice amp, but I intend to improve the sound right away by changing out the Chinese tubes and replacing the thick sound-inhibiting grill cloth. I may pop in a new Jenson or Weber speaker eventually.
There are a ton of electronic mods available all over the internet on these little babies, mostly for rockers who want to dime the volume. Has anyone done anything like bypassing the fixed tone stack for jazz applications? I do not care about overdrive, crunch, etc., and I will not be using it to gig. I'd appreciate hearing about any experience from jazz guys.
-
11-26-2013 08:48 PM
-
Just a small advice: don't spend too much on it. I had a Blues Jr that I modded a lot... it was great because I learned so much but in the end it was still a small boxy 15w el84 amp. I like modding if it's small adjustments but heavy modding... easier just to get another amp. Anyway, just my 2 cents.
-
I have a champion 600. I also got it looking for a small clean practice amp for jazz. I changed out the fabric cover, swapped tubes, and put in a late-breakup weber.
All I can say is: it works. But only just barely. It's a good match with my yamaha tele-clone, and a GREAT match with my gitane through a stimer for that "django in the 50's" sound. But it breaks up all too soon for traditional jazz tones, and it sounds a bit boxy when you crank it up louder than conversation level.
After going through the effort, I feel inclined to trade up to a superchamp X2.
-
Good advice not to put too much into the Champ 600. I picked it up thinking it would be a fun project amp. I didn't pay too much for it and I can get my money back out of it, especially if I do not replace the speaker. The tubes and speaker cloth are given, and not expensive. The electronic mods are cheap. Change a resistor or a cap here and there. The parts are probably less than $5. I wonder if those mods are good for jazz. The rockers want early breakup, creamy distortion, etc. I could care less about all that, but I would like as fat a tone as I can get with a 6 inch speaker, even just for practice around the house. Have any jazzers actually done the mods?
-
Yeah.. I only did the Dime-Me mods
8in alnico speaker and a tweed tone stack
Actually a mod you dont see often that I did.. 6K6 power tube .. just for fun.
Never tried it for jazz but nailed the neil young old black 5e3 tone nicely (with a Tele of all things)
-
I'm most curious about cutting out the fixed tone stack, which I have been lead to believe includes scooped mids. The mod changes it, as I understand it, to more like the "tweed tone stack" that SamBooka is talking about above. Were the original tweeds/5e3 good for jazz or are they only valued for the Clapton "Layla" sound?
SamBooka, what effect did the 6k6 power tube have?
-
the 6k6 knocked the wattage down a hair.. and also cut the headroom by a not-huge-but-noticable margin.
Without the tonestack mods the amp sounds like my sf champ/vibrochamp but with the boxiness people complain about.. and lower power (6 in speaker doesnt help).. btw my other champs have no boxiness at all (i would even say that if I had to get rid of all my amps an keep one, I would keep the VC).
One of my pet peeves (not directed at you) is the way people refer to "jazz" when discussing tone? You mean Charlie Christian/Oscar Moore tone? Grant Green/Kenny Burrell early 60s tone? Wes? Metheny?Stern?
Tweedish amps are fine (subjective opinion here) for CC/early GG tones (especially GG) but it depends on how you use it, what pickup, how you pick.. all the "in your hands" stuff you cant buy etc etc etc.
</rant>
-
Thanks for the reply, SamBooka, and the rant! ;-)
I appreciate your specificity, but I was thinking in much broader terms--clean tone jazz vs. distorted rock sound. Without giving away too much of my own prejudice, I would love it if I could get a 30s-50s, Charlie Christian, Oscar Moore sound out of this little box with my ES-175. I would hate it if it sounded like Stern, Scofield, Methany.
Here's my own rant: Oscar Moore is one of the best guitarists you've never heard of. Maybe I'll start another thread!
-
Not that i'm taking it personal or anything, but in the context of my post, I meant traditional jazz tone as opposed to "django in the fifties". That is: anything that runs the spectrum of "clean" tube amp sound.
Originally Posted by SamBooka
-
The "Django in the fifties" sound is bit much, but I'm guessing I can turn the volume down a notch to dial in the CC/Moore sound. All those early guys sound like they're right on the verge of breakup. It's not really all that clean. Django may have been a little past the verge when he went electric late in his career. At any rate, I kind of dig that "pushing some volts through a small amp" sound. When I want clean power, I can always use my Acoustic Image.
-
I have a Champ 600
I did a lot of the mods
-new grill cloth
-removed the tone stack
-8" Weber alnico Sig speaker and new baffle
-good re-issue tubes
And the verdict . . . great blues amp . . . but not a very good jazz amp
It has virtually no clean volume. If I were to do it again, I'd put a switch in the low input jack hole for switching out the tone stack. It did passable cleans stock at lower volumes. I may redo this anyway.
But as a nasty little blues or rock amp, it's good. Thick distortion at lower volumes and singing sustain at higher volumes. it does get loud.
-
DRS, so you would be able to switch it back and forth--stock for clean, modded tone stack for rock/blues? Do you always use the high input jack?
-
Exactly. Hit the switch for the staiinkkk. Originally Posted by Chazmo
And, yes, I use the high input.
It is a cool little jump blues amp.
-
I did several mods to the Champ 600, and listed them briefly in this post:
https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...tml#post302553
I repeat them here:
1- replaced the speaker with a small 6" weber alnico
2- improved the internal shielding (filament supply, signal cables and cabinet)
3- added a big inductor on the preamp power supply to filter the hum, in place of the output transformer, which was moved far from the power transformer; this together with the alnicomagnet mods and mods 2 reduced the noise to zero
4- removed feedback resistor; this increased the gain and made the circuit more similar to the tweed champ; the sound was just a bit less clean at medium volumes but the distortion was more progressive at higher outputs
5- changed the "medium" fender stack resistor to much higher value to practically bypass the fender stack; this also made the circuit more similar to the tweed champ and increased the medium frequencies
6- reduced the cathode bypass cap on the first stage to 1uF to reduce a bit the low frequency spectrum to simplify life to the 6" speaker with humbuckers
7- removed the cathode bypass cap on the second stage: after steps 4 and 5 there was gain in excess so i didn't need the extra 6db of gain
8- removed the cathode bypass cap on the power output stage: on high signals the output stage was abruptly shorting the second preamp tube and the resulting distortion was very harsh; after that the distortion become much smoother
Mods 2 and 4-8 are practically free. Now I remember that I also changed the grill cloth with a thinner one.
-
Great info folks,
Assuming that we're talking broadly within the same sphere of reference, can anybody out there say if a 5/6 watt valve amp is really of any practical use for jazz beyond the woodshed/living room. Perhaps some of you may have seen the European Stimer or Nuance brands of amplifiers. Also can anybody suggest a modern amp that can get you into the realms of a Gibson EH-150.
Thanks.
-
I did the same. Was pretty much just a bit of fun with mediocre results. I haven't used the thing in three years. I'm saving it for a grandkid to play with. Originally Posted by nosoyninja
Reply With Quote
Samick Jz4 update/upgrade
Today, 03:41 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos