Gibson L-5 Wes Montgomery - Worth the money?

[bob dullam]

would like a high-end jazz box, love the sound of the L-5 wes, but is it worth the mega bucks? and how does it comp. to other high-end boxes? i.e. benedetto, george B. signatures, etc. etc.

[2bornot2bop]

The L5 haunted me...I lusted for one as much as anyone, but still, I was reluctant to spend the dough. Then one day one found me. I've not owned the others you've mentioned. But an L5, bought right, is "worth it", imho.

[Jimmy Mack]

I had the same experience 2bornot2bop. Mine was crying to be owned by someone who cherished one.

Tried it once in a store, and put it back on the wall. Couldn't sleep for a week. Wife said: "go for it - if it's right". Went back to play it again - something wrong! Thieves snapped the ebony bridge right out from under the strings - probably tuned to pitch!!!!!

Store manager was pissed. Dropped the price by $500 and promised a replacement bridge. Either they were BS'ing me, but I doubt it, but Gibson would not supply a replacement. We're in Guitar Center. No dealer service?????

I believe the manager. He took another L5 type bridge, with a TOM, from another hi-end Gibson, put it on my L5. Thank you very much.

But once home, the top was buzzing. F&#king thieves broke the braces when they popped out the bridge. Back to the store, and they had a Master repairman, who worked at Gibson previously, fix it. 2 weeks of waiting but this guy ached over my guitar and the insults it had suffered. He took his time and did it right. And then he set it up. Wow, I never had a guitar play so well and so effortlessly. But the tone !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Plus, the gold plating on the pickups was etched off due to off-gassing of the p/guard in the case, hence the previous owner traded it in.

I love it. Bury me with it.

[jzucker]

The L5 is the classic jazz guitar IMO. The only guitars I've heard that are close are the heritage eagle guitars. The heritage guitars are available used for less than 1/2 the price of the Gibson. Only you can make the call whether it's worth the extra dough to get the G logo. Certainly the G logo will hold it's value and probably increase in value but I've seen the Heritage Eagles go for $2000 recently. I had one for sale for a year at $2400 with no offers so the market is good for the buyer for these guitars. During that same period, the gibson equivalent was going for $10k.

I have only played a few benedettos and they are great guitars but didn't have the vibe of an L5. I was in guitar center a few years ago and they had a benedetto ($25k) and a '70s L5 ($5k) and I loved the sound of the L5 more than the benedetto.

[bob dullam]

@jzucker, ya that's kinda what I thought. the Gibson L-5 has the vibe we're all looking for. I've played one benedetto once, and while darn nice, I could tell the difference between that and an L-5.
I've read some other gear reviews, that also say that while the L-5 wesmo is expensive, the tone is the real deal, and worth it. much thanks guys, keep the comments comin.

[AlainJazz]

I own a L5CES. I have tried two WesMo's and was surprised to find that they sounded a bit different to my ears. I know it sounds crazy but I find the CES sounds to me closer to the classic L5 tone the way we all picture it. So many guitars sound great and are beautiful well made instruments (sadowsky, Benedetto, Campellone, etc etc). All of them have a particular voice. It's the same with the L5. Only an L5 sounds like an L5.


I used to own one of the Japanese L5 copies by aria. Beautiful guitar. Really well made with loads of attention to detail. It sounded nothing like the real thing.

[jzucker]

i agree with alain. The 2 pickup version has a very distinctive tone, different from the wes. Also, the ibanez version which you now see on ebay for $3k + was a cheap knockoff and sounds nothing like an L5

[TonyD]

I am in the same boat. The L-5 CES and Wes are haunting my in my dreams. I am checking out a Wes today! We'll see.

[Mark M.]

I own a L5CES. I have tried two WesMo's and was surprised to find that they sounded a bit different to my ears. I know it sounds crazy but I find the CES sounds to me closer to the classic L5 tone the way we all picture it. So many guitars sound great and are beautiful well made instruments (sadowsky, Benedetto, Campellone, etc etc). All of them have a particular voice. It's the same with the L5. Only an L5 sounds like an L5.

I have had the same experience. Initially, I wanted a WesMo, but in comparison it's the tone of the L5 CES that I prefer. I played a new WesMo recently and it paled in comparison to my L5 CES. It was great, don't get me wrong. But, it wasn't the dark, fat tone of the CES. Mine is also nicely broken in and that may have also made a difference. I have certainly noticed improvment in the sound of mine over time.

Are they worth it? As with any other guitar you should play it and see if it calls to you. They are the most beautiful archtops ever made, IMO. The sound is iconic. Only you know the financial sacrifices you will have to make to own one, so only you can answer the question of whether it is worth it.

One other thing to add: I have owned a Heritage 575 & a 576, a Gibson ES 175 and L4 CES, and a Campellone 16" Standard. None of them compare to the L5. In general, Gibsons have a much different sound & feel than Heritage. I know many people here like Heritage and they are fine guitars. But, they do not compare to a Gibson in my opinion in sound, feel, or workmanship. The Campellone was beautiful and sounded great but ultimately wasn't the sound I was looking for. I may own another Campellone some day, but I'll never part with my L5.

[jzucker]

In general, Gibsons have a much different sound & feel than Heritage. I know many people here like Heritage and they are fine guitars. But, they do not compare to a Gibson in my opinion in sound, feel, or workmanship.

I think that's a gross over-generalization. I would put my heritage eagle up to any gibson L5 and I have owned a '64 L5, 75 L5, 1990s Wes, a 1948 Super 400 and countless other gibsons.

These kinds of statements I find to be silly. Every guitar is different. Gibson made their share of dogs too.

[jzucker]

on second thought, nevermind about heritage. Since I'm looking for another eagle, i should say they suck. That way the price will stay cheap and i will be able to get the equivalent of a $10k L5 for $2000.

[Mark M.]

I figured I would get this kind of reaction from some. Of course there are variations. You seem a tad defensive.

[jim dandy]

The L-5 is an iconic guitar and I've not found anything else that sounds like one (although I am not a pro player, for full disclosure). The only thing I would add is to make sure that you are comfortable with the 17 inch body size before taking the plunge. I had an L-5 Wes a few years ago and it was a great guitar. But I never could get comfortable with the body size/ergonomics and no longer own it or any other 17 in arch top because they just don't work for me.

[jzucker]

I figured I would get this kind of reaction from some. Of course there are variations. You seem a tad defensive.

let's make this about the guitars, not you or me

[Mark M.]

let's make this about the guitars, not you or me

I thought that was what I was doing. I don't recall making any reference to your opinion as "silly."

[bob dullam]

much thanks to all who responded. This helps, because it's hard for me to find someone who has and L-5CES, or a wesmo, so I can compare myself, no music store just has them in stock. I have to take a leap of faith, and rely on what the general guitar population feels. So far it does seem that the gibson L-5 stands a bit above the rest. When I listen to Wes M. recordings, there is not doubt that this is the quintesional jazz sound. Lots of great archtops, all with their own vibe. The question now comes down to the wesmo, the 2 pickup L-5, or the lee ritenour sig. I live in the original home town of Gibson, and now heritage, I also used to do inlay work for heritage. I agree with the thought that while the heritage eagle is a great guitar, there is a difference between it, and the L-5.

[fumblefingers]

the L5 and Wes have 25.5" scale lengths,
they have sides that are deeper than 3",
they are carved thicker than some,
they have pick-ups cut into the top.


Most custom luthier built, high-end archtops today are more in line with the Gibson Johnny Smith specs (25" scale length, 3" sides, thinner carve, floating pick-ups - i.e. an "acoustic" archtop.)

it's no wonder they sound at least a little bit different. it's on purpose.

[fumblefingers]

would like a high-end jazz box, love the sound of the L-5 wes, but is it worth the mega bucks? and how does it comp. to other high-end boxes? i.e. benedetto, george B. signatures, etc. etc.

what Benedetto are you comparing it too? Benedetto doesn't really make a guitar with L5 specs, but this is the closest stock guitar that they make, relative to a Wes. (Americana)

http://benedettoguitars.com/guitars/...cana%E2%84%A2/


The Americana is not what Benedetto is known for of course. The Manhattan would be the one for that...

[fumblefingers]

much thanks to all who responded. This helps, because it's hard for me to find someone who has and L-5CES, or a wesmo, so I can compare myself, no music store just has them in stock. I have to take a leap of faith, and rely on what the general guitar population feels. So far it does seem that the gibson L-5 stands a bit above the rest. When I listen to Wes M. recordings, there is not doubt that this is the quintesional jazz sound. Lots of great archtops, all with their own vibe. The question now comes down to the wesmo, the 2 pickup L-5, or the lee ritenour sig. I live in the original home town of Gibson, and now heritage, I also used to do inlay work for heritage. I agree with the thought that while the heritage eagle is a great guitar, there is a difference between it, and the L-5.

Incredibly, The Music Zoo usually does have them in stock, and in spades. That might be worth a trip! (super 400, Wes, L5, Lee Rit, recently they had a LeGrand)

http://www.themusiczoo.com/category/...ice/descending


Also - Wes' sound? - make note - he played with his thumb. Yes the guitar mattered but playing with a pick won't sound exactly like that even with an L5...


Lastly, the Lee Ritenour signature L5? I had one built but traded it in later for a LeGrand. It does not compare to a larger guitar really because... it's small. It was arguably the most beautiful archtop that I have ever owned. Great looking proportions, beautiful AAAAA wood figuring matched to the body size, rich antique sunburst color, eggshell colored binding, floating pick-up, "fingers" tailpiece, "abalone mother or pearl" inlays. wow!

but it was small, felt small, and sounded small (unplugged anyway). the action was high on the upper frets even with low action at the 12th fret, and the intonation was not great with the wood bridge, although a T-O-M would have likely addressed that. Looks like Rit uses a T-O-M on his:

Word to the wise - do NOT compare this guitar to the larger ones. Forget the "L5" label, it really has nothing to do with it. Its really much more like a small LeGrand (but its not a LeGrand either). If you are tall and play unplugged like me this may not be your guitar. If you are short or stand up to play it may be. And its a nice addition if you have a collection of larger guitars.

[neuroscan]

... I am reading this thread with great interest! One question that (as a non-expert in archtops) I cannot seem to get out of mind, would Yunzhi be able to build a credible L5/Eagle replica on request? I don't care so much about the looks, but rather about the basic specs. I am aware that Yunzhi normally specialises in Benedetto-type replicas, but I don't see why they couldn't adjust the specs to L5 (scale length, parallel bracing, set-in PUPs, etc.). I am sure it would be a gamble (and almost certainly an electronic swap-out would be required), but at 1/10 the price of a Gibson... Is there anything in the Gibson specs that is particularly difficult to duplicate? (Heritage seems to have managed, according to jaz). N.

[fumblefingers]

There's good reason for Heritage to "have managed", relative to Gibsons of course. There's a direct lineage.

[helios]

Hello,
I was in Rochester NY years ago for some work related training, and went to a store called "House Of Guitars" where they had a both a new L5 CES, and an L5 Wes. Since I pretty much only use the neck pickup when playing any guitar, I walked in fully prepared to like the L5 Wes much better. As others have mentioned, I too preferred the the sound of the L5 CES in terms of attaining that classic L5 tone! This was a bit of a shocker to me only because I expected the reverse. Jeff

[wintermoon]

I think the Wes models might be a bit brighter/more acoustic sounding, which is natural due to 4 less holes cut in the top.
I'm guessing the top bracing might also be different/less which would also contribute to a more acoustic/brighter sound

[P4guitar]

I have an L5CES and have played the Wes and a variety of Heritages - all are good if not great guitars. If one likes the L5 sound then one should probably get an L5.

In choosing a guitar, one should account for the ergonomics, particularly the body and the neck. The L5CES body is big and heavy so if you have a preference in body size or weight, take that into account. The stock L5CES also has a narrow neck which I didn't like so mine was replaced with one with just over 1 3/4" at the nut. Now it's a keeper - resale be damned. If you don't like narrow necks or heavy big bodies, the L5CES may be problematic. The good news is there are lots of great guitars that will work for almost any tastes.

FWIW, I also own a two other archtops that I like too, an Eastman and a custom job - both are lighter and sound better acoustically. That said, only the L5 gets the L5 sound and there's one more advantage, it can play a lot louder than the my others - almost rock levels. I think it's because of the thickness of the top and the two embedded pickups.

[2bornot2bop]

much thanks to all who responded. This helps, because it's hard for me to find someone who has and L-5CES, or a wesmo, so I can compare myself, no music store just has them in stock. I have to take a leap of faith, and rely on what the general guitar population feels. So far it does seem that the gibson L-5 stands a bit above the rest. When I listen to Wes M. recordings, there is not doubt that this is the quintesional jazz sound. Lots of great archtops, all with their own vibe. The question now comes down to the wesmo, the 2 pickup L-5, or the lee ritenour sig. I live in the original home town of Gibson, and now heritage, I also used to do inlay work for heritage. I agree with the thought that while the heritage eagle is a great guitar, there is a difference between it, and the L-5.

Bob, you need to connect with Dr. Mark, aka forum user Marty Grass. He's from Kalamazoo and always has great archtops on hand. You'll find him on the Heritage Owner's forum as well.

Prior to owning an L5 I'd owned close to a dozen Heritage Golden Eagles, 6 Super Eagles, a Heritage Super Kenny Burrell, an Eagle Mahogany, a Sweet 16, and a 575. The guitar in my avatar, a one off Golden Eagle non cutaway in tuxedo black, was one of the best of the lot. No one was a bigger Heritage advocate than me. Being retired I'd been big on maximizing my dollars by buying archtops that performed above their price points.

Then an L5 and Super 400 arrived, in the same week, and tone distinctions immediately taught me that the GE is not an L5, and a Super Eagle is clearly not a Sup' 4. That's been my experience.