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I am thinking about getting a G3 soon. I am playing a lot with a singer these days and a lot of times I have a PA in the house and I want a small modeler to take with me.
The G3 is the only one that meets the price / size / xlr out requirements.
I have read on several sites you don't get enough clean headroom... is this true? With a Twin Reverb patch with the gain low do you have a 100% clean sound and enough volume to use with a band? I mean zero crunch.
Also how are the cleans? I don't care if it sounds like a real blackface but if you can dial a decent clean sound. All I need for this project.
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01-26-2014 09:17 PM
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You really think you'd be happy with such a setup? Apart from the sound, those low end modelers (ie. not Kemper or AxeFX) have a very slight but noticeable latency. I gather this is mainly for portability, since you already have Henriksen & Mambo heads with line outs. Does the Barb EQ work ok going straight into the desk?
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Hi, Jorge,
I'm on vacation, so didn't bring my G3 with me. However, even though you have to crank the master on the Twin settings, I think you will find plenty of clean headroom, though you may have to add a touch of gain to get some decent volume… start low on the gain, max the master and add it back in.
I haven't noticed issues of latency at all, though I AM messing with my new Apogee Jam (the newest, with higher specs) and the latency on THAT thing drives me crazy. You can set it for lower latency, but then you start to get noise and artifacts. Totally kills it for spontaneous playing, but maybe if I was recording a part that I'd rehearsed a lot. Very disappointed, particularly after listening to Leo Amuedo, who used an Apogee Duet on a lot of his solo Youtube stuff. Of course, I've only tried it on an iPad, maybe it would not be noticeable on my Mac.
I got a G3 before they came out with the G3X, so added the expression/volume pedal later, but I think that's actually a bit more versatile setup…. slightly smaller if you want to put it on the desktop, or run a patch cable from the floor to the desktop, etc.
Good luck!
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I see your point but... the Henriksen line out has no speaker emulation nor does the Mambo. The Henriksen even needs a dummy load... The Mambo does not but sounds like a reverb pedal and an eq sent to the PA. I could ask Jon to build me a speaker simulation on the line out but he's very busy and the price of sending the head back and forth plus the mod should not be far from the price of a G3.
Originally Posted by 3625
I have used the Barb EQ that way. It sounded very acceptable but it means - pedalboard, patch cables, power supply and four pedals (tuner, barb eq, reverb, ada gcs-2 di cab simulator). It's a big setup... and the ADA is noisy unfortunately. The gigs I have used I ended up being able to do the gig with no problems but I don't want to deal with that again. On paper it's a perfect pedal but not so much on practice unfortunately.
The more expensive modelers all seem amazing - axefx, kemper, 11r - but they are very expensive, big and heavy. The pod hd bean is now out of production and at a reduced price but no footswitches and no xlr out (which seems a common thing... a lot of times I need to use a modeler I go trough a stage box which is ALWAYS xlr, so deal breaker. I could add a passive DI but then more pedals, cables, etc...)
The G3 is perfect on size, functions, footswitches etc... And I don't need stellar sounds, just acceptable. And CLEAN
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Enjoy your vacations, I could use some myself... Originally Posted by yebdox
Good to know that. I was hoping a cranked master, low gain Twin or Hiwatt would give me a lot of clean headroom...
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Well, your mileage may vary but one thing i really regret in my G3 is that the amp simulations really take a toll on the bottom end of the signal, not sure this is "acceptable". I had actually very good results using the graphic EQ to roll off the treble, a bit of compressor and, this is the trick of the trade, the "resonator" effect that, if used with parsimony, can do a good jod emulating the nasal peak of a speaker. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
And I don't need stellar sounds, just acceptable. And CLEAN
Actually it's not even the speaker sim that is guilty, but the amp models themselves: even with the speaker OFF, the sound looses one ball, if i may say so.
I have much better results with my $40 Joyo American Sound
Last edited by xuoham; 01-27-2014 at 06:15 AM.
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I used to have the zoom g5 and it's just the bigger brother, but I really doubt that you would be satisfied with this unit. I used it mostly for practicing and as a delay or or fx unit. the modelers are week. So I rather just used the eq without amp-modeling when I played without a real amp.
Why don't you use just your acoustic-guitar with a DI-Box?
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Mustang floor maybe?
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Because I don't play acoustic in this project... I play an archtop. Can you have a cab simulator without an amp model? How does that sound? Originally Posted by hans halmackenreuter
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No problem in rolling off some low end. The graphic or the parametric can be used to fix that Originally Posted by xuoham
Well, your mileage may vary but one thing i really regret in my G3 is that the amp simulations really take a toll on the bottom end of the signal, not sure this is "acceptable". I had actually very good results using the graphic EQ to roll off the treble, a bit of compressor and, this is the trick of the trade, the "resonator" effect that, if used with parsimony, can do a good jod emulating the nasal peak of a speaker.
Actually it's not even the speaker sim that is guilty, but the amp models themselves: even with the speaker OFF, the sound looses one ball, if i may say so.
I have much better results with my $40 Joyo American Sound I just want it to sound acceptable...
The joyo does not have tuner, reverb, delay or xlr out with cab sim, all stuff I need. And if it sounds like Tech 21 stuff I will not like it for sure!
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Too big and no parametric eq... Originally Posted by FrankLearns
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Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
Enjoy your vacations, I could use some myself...
Good to know that. I was hoping a cranked master, low gain Twin or Hiwatt would give me a lot of clean headroom...
Will mess with it when I get back home .... I'm generally not a big fan of modeling and only use the G3 for effects when I don't feel like playing through my pedal board ( which still has occasional slight noise issues... Th G3 is dead silent). But the blackface modeling on brief review seemed decent. I will try it with headphones and give you a better review, including investigating the speaker sim only option... Not sure that's in there. One thing that IS possible is stacking 3 or 4 EQ modules together and theoretically winding up with a 15 or 20 band EQ, juggling them all together. The acoustic sim is interesting in low doses as well. I think you might find the G3 a worthy addition just for the simplicity and versatility of the effects in a small package, which can be battery powered, even if you don't find the amp sims usable.
i can't comment on Line 6 much, except to say that I tried to get usable archtop as well as blues and fusion tones out of a Pod XT and a Boss GT 10 a couple years ago, devoting a day to each.... If it's possible, it was beyond my technical skills and the resulting tones were too distractingly plastic for me to enjoy playing. But then you have wizards like Jack Thammarat who pull amazing sounds out of Boss modelers! So, there's obviously more to learn
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Jorge,
in looking at the manual, I don't see an obvious way to use the cab sim without the amp, but it does work the other way, ie, amp model without the cab, pretty standard for modeling, as I understand. Again, not much of a modeling fan, and don't think I even want to think about an Axe FX.... I may only live another 30 or 40 years, and would rather spend more time playing than tweaking..... Damn Sirens, singing promises of the holy grail of tones! Tie me to the mast, boys!
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it's true Originally Posted by yebdox
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I can see what you like about the G3 spec wise, it's got all the features and the size is great - it could go into a gig bag front pocket. I just doubt the tonal quality is there... yet. Probably about 2 years from now, the budget modelers will be approaching the sound quality (and more importantly 'playing feel') of today's high end ones, and you'll see more and more gigging guitarists turning up to work with a little 'magic box'.
You don't like Tech21 stuff? I've never really tried a sansamp, but one of those with a small reverb pedal like the TC would fit the bill. I'd think it would have to sound a lot better than the Zoom. Considering you're already covered in terms of high end gear, the sansamp is cheaper and easier to find than something like the Ethos, though the Ethos would cover everything you want minus the reverb.
Or just plug into your iphone lol
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Guys thanks so much for all the help!!
Yedbox: Actually I need the cab simulation much more than the preamp... the parametric eq can easily be my preamp but I need a miced speaker in a cab sound. Believe me I am not a tone hunt... I love my stuff and my sound. This time is a practical subject.. I need a small easy solution to go trough PAs and not carry much stuff with me. I don't need anything stellar, just acceptable and clean and I am trying to understand if the Zoom can fit this. Also I am leaving a WT80 in my car all the time and the zoom could be there too - as a small pedalboard to use in last minute situations, which appear a lot.
3625: I am not expecting stellar sounds... just acceptable and clean. Is this thing so bad it's not usable in a small bar duo? I was quite disappointed with Tech 21 stuff as modelers... the Para DI does sound nice as an eq though. Even if they sound good I would still need reverb, tuner and a passive di (xlr is mandatory).
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Microcube! could you mod one with an xlr out? Covers everything except the eq. They sound really good!
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good idea! I have even had experience with microcube and the rec-out into pa. works great and better than with a zoom G3.
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Hate the cubes...
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Ha! I know a really good player that used one for years doing a regular solo jazz guitar gig in Barcelona. He played his Tal Farlow into one of those slim bodied rectangle microcubes and miked it into the pa. Left his Trace Acoustic at home.
Back in 04' I had one of those Zoom handheld digital multitracks with built in amp sims and effects. The twin sound was ok, but it felt wrong in terms of playability. Since then I've played through line6 and mustang amps and have felt similar - that really narrow but perceptible latency kind of feels like playing with really dead strings. But I'm real fussy about that - I once tried out a TC hall of fame and couldn't stand the tone suck it had on my signal path, so I took it back in a day.
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I know some guys like them... I hate it. I play them every week at my conservatory unfortunately..
I had a HOF, no tone suck problem... I am expecting some artificial sounds with the Zoom but hope it's acceptable!!
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Jorge, have you tried the amp sims on an iPhone? Seriously, you'd be surprised how good they are. From my experience both amplitube and garage band produce a very usable jazz sound and are better than any standalone device I've seen. I use mine all the time for practice. All you need is a digital input. I use an apogee jam. You could then take the output of the phone into the pa (I haven't tried that though but I'm sure it's doable)
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I don't have an iphone and for the price of one I rather get a modeler than can be a pedalboard...
I wish line 6 or fractal or 11r would release something in the line of the G3. The concept is brilliant! Or TC could release a Nova System with some amp cab speaker modelation...
Studio devil is actually releasing a product like that but it will be expensive...
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Ok, yeah then it makes no sense. I thought if you already have the phone you could use that but if you don't, the total cost is way too high.
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what about a AMT F1 could be a compromise. Haven't played it yet, but it has a cab speaker sim, EQ with level, master , gain, fx loop and they say it's a fendery sound which you should get with this unit. I know that you would still have to bring your reverb and tuner with such a unit, but you can reduce the tuner problem by getting yourself a tunerclip.
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