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(1) Eastman AR680
(2) Guild Starfire II (black or red, not sunburst)
(3) Heritage Eagle (some of them)
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02-04-2014 09:13 AM
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Just acquired a mahogany Eagle.
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The Eastman ER-1 has mahogany back, sides and neck, carved spruce top.
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Lets not forget the newer Gibson L-4CES with the solid carved mahogany back and mahogany sides with a carved spruce top. Nice guitar for an electric archtop and you can find them on the cheap if you look.
Thanks John
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Love my '61 Starfire III. All laminated mahogany, but 3 plies, not 5, and it just crackles with aliveness and TONE.
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You don't know what you're doing.
Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack
Know the three-letter acronym with the big G?
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No. Care to explain it?
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Of course! I apologize for my vagueness. The fact is that your comments about your ’61 Starfire caused me a serious GAS attack yesterday. A couple of bills coming in today have cooled me down quite effectively (for the time being). Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack
Knew next to nothing about the Starfires until Tuesday. I'm only interested in the II and III models (preferably II), the only difference apparently being the Bigsby vibrato.
Other than that, my current understanding is that there have been three generations:
First generation – early sixties to early seventies (made in US). Apparently they switched from narrow single-coils to (larger-than-standard) humbuckers in the early or mid-sixties.
Second generation – mid-nineties to early naughts (made in US). This time with standard-sized humbuckers.
Third generation – current, III only (made in Korea). Back again to their original humbucker design.
Prices vary from 1 to 3k. I'm based in the middle of Europe, but in terms of guitars I equate dollars and euros. Even though, vintage Starfires seem to be quite a bit more expensive in Europe than in the US.
Of course I’d greatly appreciate any comments about quality differences between those various generations, and what other things to look out for on the radar. I know nothing, for example, about three plies versus five plies, etc.
Still like these, though. Considerably.
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There were several variations on the Starfire series guitars. Get your hands on a copy of Guild Guitars by Hans Moust it is a great resource on Guilds built up to 1977. Also check out the LTG forum, there are a lot of great people over there that will freely share their knowledge about these guitars. I have a 1973 Guild Starfire IV which is a semi-hollowbody but it is one of the best playing and sounding guitars I own.
Thanks John
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In the mid-60s Guild went to a mini-humbucker. Some folks don't care for them but many do: Originally Posted by palindrome
http://www.gad.net/Blog/2011/11/25/g...up-variations/
I'm one of those who do. I find them to be very well balanced string to string and not too bright or dark, almost P90ish.
And the bridge... SFII bridges were wood. I'm the 2nd owner of a 1965 SF II, and the thin body makes it remarkably comfortable. The neck is slender but not as skinny as Gibson's 60s slim taper and it's a joy to play with TI GB12 flats. The neck inlays are not original, and the body on this one is all Maple. I thought only the red ones were all Mahogany but in those years there was often substantial variation from specs. Originally Posted by palindrome
Good luck on your hunt... these are fabulous guitars and often underpriced. I think the "2nd generation" versions are nice as well.
Last edited by AlohaJoe; 02-06-2014 at 09:31 PM.
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Thanks for the great infos, AlohaJoe and powerwagonjohn. Very interesting!
I have ordered the Hans Moust book.
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My SF II bought used in 1967 had the normal sized HB. They look like minis in the picture however.
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That Mahogany is beautiful... Very nice! Originally Posted by Doc Music
My SF II bought used in 1967 had the normal sized HB. They look like minis in the picture however.
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While not exactly an archtop, I used to own a PRS Single Cut Hollow Body Std in cherry stain color. Fantastic, versatile, guitar that can cover just about any musical ground. I only traded to get a Benedetto Bambino. I wish I still had it though!
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Wonderful guitar also! I guess "mini-humbuckers" is not what they were called back then, but apparently they were used from 1964 to 1971 and were only then replaced by the "larger-than-Gibson" humbuckers.
I understand you can tell both apart by the number of height adjustment screws, as the more recent and larger ones feature a total of three (with two screws on the top side for additional horizontal adjustment).
From: http://tinyurl.com/nfp5c6m
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This is my recent addition. 1994 Heritage Eagle Mahogany. Heritage #1 pickup. Ebony fretboard. Everything else is mahogany. 3" body. Very acoustic sounding...even plugged in.
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Yeah, Guild went from single coil p/ups to a smallish humbucker, and then in the 70's,, a larger h/ber. The 70's and on version easily fit into a standard (Gibson style) cutout. When I installed Gibson h/ber's in my '68 Guild, I had to enlarge the cutout in the top of the guitar.
Those smaller h/bers were generally quiet and didn't hold up to the sounds of the day, hence the swap in my guitar. My band mates weren't very keen on the tone I was getting. So I swapped. Some improvement only, so I bought a Gibson ES 150 TDW. They loved that guitar.
The newer Guild h/bers were only a slight improvement IME. On my X170, I replaced the neck p/u with a DeArmond GoldTone, and the bridge with a Gibson Classic 57. Much much better. The original Guild p/ups were harsh, or brittle, or weak, and unbalanced.
Let's not mis-identify Guild smallish humbuckers with Gibson and Epiphone's mini-hums. Vast differences there.
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Very nice! Originally Posted by barrymclark
I have one of these on my radar, though not locally to give it a try. If only I would trust myself that I would be liking this kind of guitar (i.e. one with a floating pickup and a solitary volume knob) in the long run...
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Something in your post leads me to believe that you are still not convinced of them Guild pickups even after all those years. Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack
I feel that non-standard pickpup cavities are definitely something I should consider (since I hate myself puzzling over pickup swaps).
Therefore, although there is something irresistibly appetizing about a well-made, broken-in, affordable mahogany hollow with original sixties vibe, I guess I would need to make sure in advance that I like the jazz sounds from the original neck pickup.
Funnily, Guild seem to have gone back to the original "mini" humbucker dimension in their current Korean line, which includes a Starfire III.
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Let me clarify, Palindrome, if anyone cares. First, my present Starfire,(had it for ten years or so) the '61, is the mahogany one, it has DeArmond Dynasonic p/ups from 1961. Stock. Killer p'ups.
My first Starfire, a '68, had those smallish Guild h/bers, with a maple ply body. If it sounded as good as my '61 Starfire, I would still have it. But after installing Gibson p/ups, it still didn't have IT. Sold it.
Then bought a Guild NightBird, with Kent Armstrong p/ups, and a 25 K volume pot. That's right - 25 K. Pretty muddy.
My next Guild, an X170, had their larger style p/ups. I couldn't stand the neck p/up. So I swapped them out. The guitars' tone improved DRAMATICALLY. But, then I found a deal on a Gibson L5CES.
So, I never liked the Guild p/ups when you could hear guys with Gibsons sounding great all the time! I've only had a few Guild p/ups, but I was never really happy with Guild's choices, xcept for the "61 Starfire. Still play and gig with it, and people are in awe of its tone.
Yeah, the new small h/bers sound fine. I played one in a store. Nice, but polite. How would they sound in a live group setting???
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Here is an uncut early 60s Guild T-50 thinline that was for sale a while back. Mahogany topped T50s are quite rare, but still not terribly expensive. This one has the small single-coil pup and sadly isn't mine, but one that got away.
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One may add that Tom Painter also made some instruments that for all practical purposes were all mahogany. His blonde/maple guitars were often made of 3-ply laminate where the maple was only a very thin cosmetic sheet of nicely figured maple with a thicker center layer of mahogany. At least on his later instruments, the braces were also cut from mahagany. If the neck was also mahogany (the customer could choose mahogany or maple) - voila, then you had a mahogany guitar. My P-350 is made that way. BTW, Tom didn't use binding. Instead he bevelled the edge of the guitar body to emphasize the middel mahogany plywood layer of the top and back to produce a reddish brown stripe contrasting with the blonde maple surface ply.
Last edited by oldane; 02-11-2014 at 09:53 AM.
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Hey Jimmy, thanks for your explanations! Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack
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I believe the Eastman AR680 has a spruce top. Originally Posted by palindrome
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AJL Guitars (Finland) makes a Spruce top/Mahogany Body body guitar:
http://www.ajl-guitars.com/ajlguitar...5#.UvrWZ2JdWSo
Mahogany Archtop Guitars
Some old masters say that sound wise mahogany is actually better suited for archtop guitars than traditionally used maple. Obviously I can’t decide that for you. However it sounds really good to me - super sensitive, a light string tension and a fast attack. Mahogany archtops are available in the following colours; Black and Bordeaux.
Technical data
Scale length: 25 1/2"
Body size: 17 inch
Top: Solid European spruce or Sitka spruce
Back & sides: Solid Honduras Mahogany
Neck: Honduras Mahogany, two piece, rosewood stripe
Neck dimensions: 43 mm at the 0-fret, 54 mm at the 14th fret
Fingerboard: Ebony with m.o.p. inlays and side dots
Frets: Dunlop
Bridge: Brazilian rosewood with gold plated thumbwheels
Hardware: Grover Imperial tuners, Fingerstyle tailpiece
Truss-rod: Two-way adjustable
Inlays: Genuine Mother of pearl
Pickguard: Bound tortoise-style with hidden volume control
Finishing options: Bordeaux, Tuxedo
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