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Not sure which amp to go with, I can pick a SS22 up used for $700? Currently using a fender hot rod deluxe, plenty of headroom, etc.. Will the tone be that much different?
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04-09-2014 06:48 AM
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HRD will have more headroom, I think. Even the "normal" (clean) channel of the SS22 doesn't have a ton of headroom. I love my SS22, but if I wanted loud clean, it is not the amp I would choose (neither is the DR).
But for that semi-clean/verge of breakup tone, I don't think you can beat the SS22/DR, at that wattage level anyway.
$700 is a good price for the SS22. And, the Burn channel is highly underrated. It's not just a "dirty" channel... calling it "Burn" was a mistake. It CAN "burn" (80s metal w/o pedals, no problem)... but it does "Fender semi-dirty breakup... like you just turned up a Fender amp- wonderfully. I can get the Burn channel to sound very very similar to the clean channel, both in tone and breakup.
It doesn't get more versatile than a SS.Last edited by ruger9; 04-09-2014 at 07:42 AM.
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Thank you, that helps me a lot.
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Fender 6V6 family, but with a flamethrower channel. The clean channel is supposed to sound like a DR, but I'd miss the real Fender tremelo-lo-lo-lo....
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I've owned several versions of the Hot Rod Deluxe and Deville. The Deville 2X12 was the most useful as the clean side was very loud and a good platform for pedals. Good funk and R&B amp/wedding band amp. Overdrive on the versions I had were not useful at all but supposedly version III has a marginally better lead sound. You can get the older ones really cheap used. The chassis has stacked up circuit board and is hard to work on.
I like the Supersonic 22 more than any of them. It's more interesting and has more "color", plus the gain side is great. It can get loud but you'll break up past 3 or 4 on the clean volume. But I'd say that on 2 the volume is way too loud for most any straight ahead jazz group in a small intimate setting. Actually I get a nice dark jazz sound turning up the volume to 2 and turning the guitar volume down. When on a big stage with a loud band and you're wearing plugs the Supersonic may want to break up too much unless you've got it pointed at your head using tilt back legs . But I've got my Supersonic 60 for those gigs.
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vejesse,
Is the Supersonic 60 you have the newer one? I'd love to hear your comparison of the 22 and the 60... I know the 60 is 6L6s, but I have also heard it is voiced differently, especially on the clean channel? Maybe it's just the V30 speaker...
I love my 22, but wonder if it'll keep up with a drummer, especially if you want any clean headroom.... I figured if I ever got to that point, since I love the 22 so much, I'll just buy a 60... but no one owns both, and can give an opinion on how the sound alike/different (aside from headroom).
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This has been discussed to death on the web but I'll give you my take.
The amp is capable of sounding good but it seems like a lot of work to get there. Because it's so loud you always have the volume low so the tubes are barely getting driven. I have tried an attenuator and that seems to help. I also had someone wire in a pentode/triode switch and running the power tubes in triode mode give you a pretty good, if one dimensional dark jazz sound. But why haul a 55 pound amp just for that sound?
I've found that with the 60 the Vibrolux setting is almost too bright and the Bassman is almost too dark. With a strat the Vibrolux is just ear piercing. (A Cannabis Rex speaker helped that but hurt the lead sound clarity). And switching clean channels is a problem because the difference in volume is noticeable. But with the 22 with the fat switch engaged I'm able to get a passable jazz sound with my 335 (strung with .011s, .012 on top) and I can turn off the fat switch for funky rhythm playing. The volume difference switching between the two is not as noticeable.
For lead sounds I actually think the 22 works better. I think that the power tube compression starts up earlier and the effect is more forgiving. The lead side of the 60 has a somehow harder, maybe harsher sound and the preamp doesn't give you as much gain early in the pot sweep. Maybe just 6v6 vs. 6L6 is what I'm thinking. If I spent a lot of time with the amp I could develop a fluid legato type of technique but it was hard to duplicate on a loud gig. On quieter gigs I had more success but this is the case with most gear I guess.
The 60 is just not as forgiving as the 22. I know the sound is in there but it takes a better, more consistent player than myself to have big success with it. It's not plug and play for me, and a bunch of other people feel the same way evidently if you look at the online reviews. I'm going to keep it around for the moment but the 22 has superseded the 60 in my case. I do occasionally play some very loud shows and I'll pull out the 60 - if it still works. Mine had a problem at first cutting out. I think we fixed that particular problem but it seems to have a different cut out problem now. But it could be something with my pedal board too, I haven't investigated like I should have.
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Thanks for the detailed opinion- as I said, alot of people have the 22 OR the 60, but very few people have BOTH.
BTW- is the 60 one of the original Supersonics, or the newer one? I had one of the originals, and you descrition of the Vibrolux/Bassman channels is exactly what I remember.... the new 60s are supposed to have improved voicing in that regard.
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Mine is the newer Supersonic 60. I played the original Supersonic as well and the volume difference was more in the original. But still very much present in the 60. If you're light on your feet with a volume pedal you can make it work.
I'm probably painting the 60 in an unnecessarily negative light. It's a good amp it's just loud as heck. Too loud for my tinnitus ravaged ears.
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yeah, I was just thinking in terms of headroom, not volume.... with a drummer..... it seems most people can make a DR work with a drummer (not talking jazz even- country and rock), but at home the 22, while it sounds GREAT, seems kinda.... docile, volume-wise.... and I wonder if I needed clean AND relatively loud (like for country), with a drummer, if it could handle it.... I haven't played it with a drummer yet. But I would hat to have something with too much headroom- where you can't get that edge-of-breakup thing unless you're ear-bleeding loud (even on my hollowbodies, when I'm playing jump blues and rocking swing I don't want it dead clean)...
I guess I could always do the Campilongo trick- turn the 22 up to the volume required, then clean up with the guitar's volume knob... I know it's a great trick and a "secret weapon", but sometimes I find it a PITA... I just want to floor it and play.
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Anyone have any experience with a mesa boogie .22 ? One has come up locally for under $500. Is it in the same league as the supersonic 22?
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I believe the Supersonic 22 is Fender attempting to be in the same league as Mesa Boogie and amps like the .22.
The Boogie is better built. Not that Supersonics are poorly built but the early ones has some issues. I know this is heresy but the Supersonic Burn model on the Mustang IIIv2 sounds great at low volumes. And you still have the other Fender models for clean.
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Fender hit a home run with the SS burn channel.. Vintage snobs can turn their noses up all they want- they're wrong. That burn channel, while capable of doing 80s metal, ZZ Top boogie, Santana smooth, AC/DC crunch... can also do "overdriven single channel fender amp" like nobody's business. And I'm talking about the BURN channel. Yup. Can sound like a single channel Fender overdriving. Fender got this one about perfect.
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+1
Originally Posted by DRS
tonight at band practice I played my Mustang floor directly into the PA and was thinking "man that sounds great" - twin, bassman, crunchy Marshall, cranked Marshall, supersonic burn channel, lush reverb, slapback delay, stereo delay, wobbly chorus, wah wah ... Whatever ... Once everyone is cooking the difference between (reasonable) 200$ equipment and 5000$ equipment kind of gets blurry. It is crazy how much good stuff Fender put into these units ... Good to great amp sims (I did put up the twin simulation of a mustang iv against a real twin using an A/B pedal and a looper and after tweaking the knobs a bit the difference was pretty small, even under living room conditions), good effects, cab sims, volume/expression pedal, all kind of inputs and outputs, tuner ... Next gig I'll show up with a guitar and that pedal under my arm and that's it. The one flaw in the design is that the effects loop is routed before the amp sim not after - that's plain silly 'cause I can't put a booster in there to get louder.
... Sorry for the diversion ... Rant off :-)
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I like the Boogie .22 caliber a lot. I've played through quite a few of them in studios, and I've always been happy with the tone. I can't compare it the the supersonic because I don't know that amp, but compared to, say, a Deluxe Reverb, I'd say it's emblematic of the differences between blackface Fenders and Mark/Caliber series Boogies. Much more mid-rangey; the OD is more compressed/sustaining. It won't get you the classic scooped/sparkling Fender clean sound, but does its own nice and fat thing very well. Here's an example: Originally Posted by Rich D.
(this was a pretty casual session; pardon the less-than-tightness)
John
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Really nice playing, love the tone.. What guitar are you playing?
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Thanks. The guitar is a D'Angelico EX-DC semi-hollow. Originally Posted by Rich D.
John
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I found this Ibanez rarity
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