Best Strings for Gibson L-7?

[Macky92]

When I bought my 1951 Gibson L-7, it was strung with flatwounds.

I didn't really like the sound of flats on an acoustic archtop so I just put phosper bronze 13 gauge (D'addario EJ 24's) on, but it seems like it is putting a real strain on the guitar which is making me a bit anxious. The little colored hoop on the string barely catches onto the tailpiece.

Is there a special brand of PB strings for archtops that I'm supposed to get?

Or should i just get my guitar setup?

[kamlapati]

I have my '46 L-5, same basic construction, strung with 80/20 .013s and it's been stable for at least as long as I've owned it, near on ten years. These guitars should be able to handle pretty big strings no problem. If it was previously setup with lighter strings, you may need to adjust the truss rod and the bridge height however.

The design of the tailpiece does mean that more of the string length is used compared to a flatop, but again I've never had a problem with that. I do have less excess to cut off at the peghead end after tuning up.

I like GHS but that's just personal. Any brand should be OK it they are long enough, and if the endpin fits OK. D'Addario's have worked OK for me.

[Jabberwocky]

Regardless of string choice, getting it set up is a good idea especially if you're changing gauge or type of strings.

Just get it set up anyway.

Try a set of Martin Monels.

[Macky92]

ust seems very difficult to tune up the low E, like it's about to snap. So hopefully the bridge is not digging heavily into the body. Maybe there is a middle ground between PB and Flats, because not digging the PB sound either.

[Macky92]

Regardless of string choice, getting it set up is a good idea especially if you're changing gauge or type of strings.

Just get it set up anyway.

Try a set of Martin Monels.

I definitely will, but for now I just hope it doesn't explode from the tension.

[kamlapati]

I definitely will, but for now I just hope it doesn't explode from the tension.

Just thinking here... any chance that the tailpiece is not original, and maybe is short, making the string longer, tension higher?

In general, these types of guitars have been strung with mediums since new with no problems. Taking yours in for a good checkup and setup sounds like a good idea.

BTW, I am not a fan of PBs on my L-5 either, but I really like the GHS Vintage Bronze 85/15s. The Martin Monels sound like a good choice too, but I haven't tried them yet.

[Jabberwocky]

Huh, I have heard of the D string being too short with the Frequensator tailpiece but an E....

Any likelihood you got sold a bum set of D'Addario EJ24? If the E string is too short what happens is you are not actually tuning it you are STRETCHING it beyond its tensile limits. There should be ample length of string for you to thread it through the tuner post, wrap half a turn around it, fold the string back upon itself and have 1.5" slack between the post and nut. You proceed to take up the slack by tuning the string up to pitch. Cut off the excess free end. Check out www.frets.net for a tutorial.

Doesn't sound right to me. Sounds like a string that is too short.

kamlapati's suggestion of GHS 85/15 is a good one. Also, check out GHS White Bronze aka Alloy 52.

[rpguitar]

Macky,

Are you familiar with acoustic archtops or is this your first? They can be a lot to get used to for the uninitiated.

Kam and Jab gave good info. Personally I like 12-53 80/20 bronze on my old Gibson acoustic archies, not PB. And don't just buy 13s because you read on the Internet that heavy strings are "required to drive the top." There is a lot, a real lot, of dubious information that simply is regurgitated by those without a real clue regarding vintage acoustic (not electric) archtop guitars.

Not to worry though, as the guys who've responded are among the savvy! String gauge is a personal choice, and there are few "musts" in the equation. Although flats are generally not recommended. (That's another perpetuate myth - that jazz guitars need flatwounds, even if the guitar is acoustic!)

[Macky92]

Macky,

Are you familiar with acoustic archtops or is this your first? They can be a lot to get used to for the uninitiated.

Kam and Jab gave good info. Personally I like 12-53 80/20 bronze on my old Gibson acoustic archies, not PB. And don't just buy 13s because you read on the Internet that heavy strings are "required to drive the top." There is a lot, a real lot, of dubious information that simply is regurgitated by those without a real clue regarding vintage acoustic (not electric) archtop guitars.

Not to worry though, as the guys who've responded are among the savvy! String gauge is a personal choice, and there are few "musts" in the equation. Although flats are generally not recommended. (That's another perpetuate myth - that jazz guitars need flatwounds, even if the guitar is acoustic!)

Hi RP,

This is my first archtop. I've come a long way from my SG special. With the flats there seemed to be less articulation, but I could hear the voice of the guitar more…if that makes any sense. With the PB it just sounds very jingly and I hear the strings more than I hear the guitar.

[Jabberwocky]

Macky, that looks splendid. A real treasure. I would definitely have it set up by A REAL TECH or LUTHIER WHO KNOWS WHAT HE OR SHE IS DOING. Don't just take it to your nearest GC. I don't know where you live but some of the guys here know where the best techs are. Your L7C deserves some loving.

Yeah, Phosphor Bronze strings have a tendency to sound as you describe them until they bed down a bit. They lose their zinginess after you play them for a week or two. Not my cuppa joe though. Try the other strings mentioned above. And I would go with kamlapati's and rpguitar's suggestions. If these guys say they don't know acoustic archtops, I don't know who does.

You may also like the Martin Tony Rice Monel strings.

Fun fact: "Monel was in use in the early 1930s by other musical string manufacturers, such as Gibson Guitar Corporation, who continue to offer them for mandolin as the Sam Bush signature set."

[zizala]

Nice first archtop!

I've got a '49 L-7c that resembles yours, as well as '47 and '45 L-7 non-cutaways.

As long as I've owned them they've been strung with 12-53 nickel roundwounds when I'm using floating pickups....
....or 12-53 or 13-56 roundwound PB's or 80/20s for acoustic use.

Lately I've been switching back and forth between electric and acoustic play often, so tend to use the nickel wounds for most everything. I do like the action a bit higher for dedicated acoustic play.

I've had the '45 for 8 years, the others maybe 5 and haven't seen any structural problems at all with these string gauges.
Post-war L-7's are stoutly built archtops and quite stable.

z
.

[Rick Kay]

I've been using the GHS Vintage Bronze on my acoustic archtops. I've tried PB strings, but, like you, I find them a little "jangly". The only PB that comes close to my target sound are the Elixir Nanoweb strings. I've tried low tension strings, and while I like the feel, they don't have the "zing" that I like. The nickel round wound TI George Benson strings don't sound too badly.

I've tried out a lot of gauges, and have found 12s to be the best for me. 13s seem to muddy just a bit.

[Geechnyc]

OP

("Just seems very difficult to tune up the low E, like it's about to snap.")

Are those the original tuners? If they need maintenance, or are just wearing out/even slightly bent, that might account for your perception of excessive tightness when tuning.

Drop-in replacements are available under the Kluson brand.

As others have said, a set-up seems in order.

I've got a '53 L7-C and currently have D'Addario 13-56 phosphor bronze roundwounds on the instrument, but am looking forward to trying Thomastik spectrum at the next string change.

[campusfive]

+1 for 13's
+1 that 12's could be okay too, some guitars don't need/like the tension (but a lot do)
+1 for 80/20's over Phosphor - I'm partial to Martin SP's myself
+1 for Martin Monel as well.
+1 that if you're having problems getting the string up to pitch, and it feels really tight, that it's probably the tuner struggling or jammed, assuming the string itself doesn't feel unnecessarily tight to play.

[Jabberwocky]

If I may, Jonathan Stout and his Campus Five, featuring Hilary Alexander - Swing Guitar Blog - Guitar String Composition and Swing Guitar .

[rpguitar]

A great blog post Jonathan! Thank you for that. As a person who suffers as an archtop generalist, playing electric, acoustic, and electrified acoustic, I can relate.

Also telling is one of the comments, which mentions something I already knew but is rarely cited on the internet: The early DeArmond floaters (Guitar Mike, FHC) were balanced for bronze strings! They also attach without the need to notch your pickguard. So they have their own set of benefits and shouldn't be discounted when compared to the much more costly Rhythm Chief models.

[xuoham]

Why do you guys prefer 80/20 over PB ?

[rpguitar]

They are a more traditional bronze string used on archtop acoustic guitars before phosphor bronze strings were available. But also:

- They have slightly less tension for the gauge vs. PB
- They are clearer with fewer ringing overtones vs. PB

Flattop players sometimes refer to 80/20 as bright vs PB being warm. But I believe they are really talking about the clarity factor. I think it suits acoustic archtops better, and particularly jazz playing - where chords need good note separation. Whereas for flattops, either string type might be preferred depending on the guitar's woods and natural qualities.

[kamlapati]

Why do you guys prefer 80/20 over PB ?

I use the strings to emphasize particular qualities that I like in each guitar I have. So out of my range of carved top guitars, some have .012s, some have .013s, some have PB, some have 85/15, and some have white bronze (alloy 52 - 52% nickel, 48% iron).

My old guitars seem to prefer the 85/15s. Similar to what RP said, it has a really strong fundamental tone, appropriate but not overwhelming high overtones, and good feel. If I couldn't get 85/15, I'd use 80/20, which are pretty close.

I've always questioned the conventional wisdom that 80/20s are brighter than PBs. Manufacturer GHS agrees with me: they list PB as brighter than 80/20 and 85/15. I suspect that there are more variables than alloy, like core diameter, wrap diameter, plating, etc. and that it varies across manufacturer.

[Longways to Go]

I just changed strings on my 1934 L7. It's only the second set of strings I've had on it since I owned it -- which has only been a couple of years. On day one, I put on a set of D'addario phosphor bronze acoustics -- which I though sounded just fine. Today I changed out to a Martin Retro Monel set. So far so good. I'll know more in a few days I suppose.

But as I was changing the strings and later evaluating the new sound (and enjoying it!) I got to thinking:
What strings would the many knowledgeable and opinionated players at JGF choose?

I'm just looking for some possible future options . . . it may take me a year or two to change strings again!

[ThatRhythmMan]

I’m in the minority and flat out appall some. I put TI Swings on my acoustic archtops, including my ‘33 L7. I’ve tried most of the other strings out there and always come back. The feel is incomparable and I prefer the tone. It may be that I like the feel so much better that I play better and in turn that sounds better to me. I’m not sure.

The common complaint is that flatwounds aren’t as loud. I’m not sure that I really notice an appreciable difference. If I find my spl meter I’m going to test it out or maybe I should just try one of the spl apps.

[oldane]

The answers you'll get will be all over the place. However, the tendency is for medium to heavier strings for acoustic archtops. They drive the top better. Slinky strings sound plinky and weak on acoustic guitars - and will buzz more easily. As for phosphor bronze/bronze/nicklel/steel etc. as well as roundwound/flatwound preferences vary greatly. Realistically, you will have to try various set out for yourself and see what you like.

The monels you have on the guitar now are popular by many (among those me) who find bronze/phosphor bronze to metallic for acoustic jazz playing. They are brighter than flatwounds but yet more mellow than bronze/phosfor bronze. As for flatwounds, D'Addario Chromes are brighter than TI nickel flatwounds (as well as most other stainless steel flatwounds). Some prefer chromes for that reason, others dislike the brightness. I'd say chromes are in between roundwounds and TI nickel flatwounds in that respect. Monels are to my ears between Chromes and bronze/phosphor bronze wound in brightness.

Back in the thirties, when your guitar was made, bronze wound was not invented. Strings were commonly wound with some kind of nickel alloy and in the 1940s untill the 1960s the word "Monel" was often found on string packages.

Flatwounds was introduced on the market as late as in the 1950s

As for string guages, what we now call medium and heavy was the common until the mid 1960s - also for rock and roll musicians. When heavy string bending became trendy, some players experimented with using an A string as a low e, the d as an a and so forth. and then replace the top e string with a thin banjo string. In the mid 1960s Ernie Ball introduced his "Slinkies" set which were lighter and had a plain third. They became very popular, especially by rock musicians, and of course most manufacturers quicly went into that market too. Some rock and blues musicians, however, prefer the heavier gauges. Stevie Ray Vaughhan is an example. Among jazz guitarists, Kenny Burrell and Jim Hall are know for prefering lighter guages (11's) on their electric archtops. Howard Roberts used very heavy top/ordinary heavy buttom flatwounds (16's). Pat Martino the same.

And of cause, all strings change character and become more dull when they age. Some hate that and change strings often, others love it and tend to keep the same set of strings on until a string breaks or they can no longer intonate properly.

[Longways to Go]

Hey Oldane, thanks for the tutorial.
I get most of the principles and I get that there is lots of individuality in choices.
But I'd really like to hear some favorite individual choices.
Sort of compiling a future string shopping list.

I've been on a bit of a string re-evaluation kick recently. I moved from rounds to flats on a couple of archtops.
I also moved from D'addario EXPs to Cleartones on a couple of flattops with really nice results.

Jury is still out on the Monels -- I don't have much time with them yet.
I could also see TI flats working nicely on the old L7. Time will tell.

Figuring out the right strings for a certain guitar isn't nearly as straightforward as one might hope.

[neatomic]

the string of choice for john d'angelico early on (1930's)...he had the d'addario fam manufacture it...80/20 on a hex core...the hex core was modern for the time...it was all round core before that!!!


phosphor bronze strings weren't invented till the 1970's...not for true vintage tone

cheers

[Stringswinger]

+1 on the TI Flats. I have 3 vintage D'Angelicos and John D'Angelicos love of 80/20 hex core rounds notwithstanding, the TI flats sound better (and play better) on the guitars that he made which I am the present caretaker of.