Pickup Height on Gibson ES-175

[Encinitastubes]

I'm having trouble getting a good balance on my Gibson ES-175.

It is a '59 Historic Reissue. I believe the pickups are '57 Classics.

If I set the neck pickup height to an ideal tone, it overpowers the bridge pickup, even when the bridge pickup is set real close to the strings.

In fact, the neck pickup generally sounds wonderful and the bridge pickup sounds a bit anemic.

Any suggestions? Thanks!!

[Frank67]

Same trouble here with a 335 style guitar and stormy monday humbuckers ... Somebody please advise!

[Jabberwocky]

Guitar is telling you: Who really plays the bridge pickup? :^*

I'm full of crazy hairshirt ideas so here's a thought: Flip the bridge pickup around so that the poles are pointing northwards towards the fretboard, not the bridge. Or flip the neck pickup around so that the poles point southwards. Or flip both around so that the poles are closest to each other.

[docbop]

A bridge pickup on a Jazz guitar is like an appendix, you ignore it and hope it doesn't go bad and mess everything up.

As to OP that is why I keep a screw driver on my practice desk and just tweak at it till I find something usable. If I use the bridge pickup it's because some funky tune was called don't have time to switch guitars so I blend it in for some highs. That is how I adjust it not to be used alone, but that its there to add to the neck pickup.

[Finn]

Have a look at the neck pickup if it is a standard '57 they do a '57+ bridge pickup. What actual height do you have the neck pickup at? it sounds to me like you might have it too close to the strings.

[SamBooka]

Agree with Finn .. actually a lot of places recommend the 57 in the neck and 57+ in the bridge.
Also agree with EVERYONE who says "who uses a bridge pickup?????"

[Frank67]

I find the middle position (perhaps with the bridge dialed a bit down using the volume pot) pretty usable for a slightly brighter but still "silky" tone.

The pickup balance is an issue. For my barenuckle Stormy Monday pair, I played with pickup height and pole screws today and was able to improve it substantially. I still find the neck pickup gorgeous sounding but the bridge a bit anemic. With a set of Amber spirit of 59 pickups or the Gibson 490/498 pair among others I had no issues of that kind.

[Greentone]

What strings? Jazz strings are stiff and don't wiggle much at the bridge. With 9 ' s it's a better comparison between the two pickups. I keep a hotter bridge pu (Seymour Duncan) in the bridge of my 335 to give life to the 11s I play.

[Encinitastubes]

I use the bridge pickup quite a bit, both on it's own and mixed in. I find that the bridge pickup with the tone turned down a bit gets a nice trumpet-like tone. I also like to play a bit of rockabilly. The strings are 12s -- flats.

[Frank67]

+1, with the tone rolled down the bridge pickups sounds good. I typically set the eq such that I like the neck pickup tone, then go to the bridge and roll the tone down until the "ice-pick" is gone. That works well. The Gibson wiring is surprisingly versatile and clever. I am not so good at really using the tone and volume knobs to their full advantage, but start to realize that there are endless tonal variations one can realize with it.

[PTChristopher2]

This is an artifact of the MUCH lower total string energy near the bridge. The metal string is simply moving far less near the bridge PU, resulting in far lower amplitude out of that PU.

It takes a remarkable difference in height adjustment to partly improve this balance.

In an ideal world where we let go of what we think we know and believe, we would choose PU's and set them for our optimum tone. Then we would use a dual pre-amp to set the PU volumes to match as we see fit.

A more responsive bridge PU can work, but with tone changes that may or may not suit a given player.

Greentone makes a great point that is 99.999% ignored in guitar-dom. While I do not see it as 100% due to stiffness, the gauge of string can have a very large impact on the harmonic content and relative amplitude of the string toward the ends vs. in the center.

All in my opinion.

Chris

[SamBooka]

Greentone makes a great point that is 99.999% ignored in guitar-dom. While I do not see it as 100% due to stiffness, the gauge of string can have a very large impact on the harmonic content and relative amplitude of the string toward the ends vs. in the center.

True but if I had a pickup that sounded meh and the solution was a)change from 13s to 11s or b)replace the pickup..

I would try the cheapiest easiest solution first (different strings) BUT I would be surprised if I liked it... would rather stay with a feel of string I enjoy and get a new pickup. (Hey.. guitar sounds great but I hate playing it so... )

[Greentone]

I agree with SamBooka. I like 13s on my copy of SuperV. I also like running both pickups some of the time (almost never run just the bridge pickup, but two pickups is a Travis tone, which is cool for some things). Running down to 11s is not what I would have in mind on a CES-type instrument. On my 335, OTOH, 11s are cool--bendable, even, on the 24-3/4" scale.

[Ghostlady]

There is also the weird truth that some guitars will always have the sweet spot at the bridge, and others will have it at the neck, and either of those will suit different styles of playing. I have only played a few guitars which are really balanced with both pickups sounding good. Even then this does not take into account individual prefrences for tone and usability for a certian style. I know a few of my math rock friends who strictly use solid bodies with bridge pickups, and almost exclusively clean. The neck pickup is considered useless.
Each guitar really does have a personality one has to live with, as well as a percieved appropriateness for a specific style.
Frankly it is common to put a much hotter pickup in the bridge if one does insist on using both, and you are more either/or and never use the middle position. This of course depends on ones style...and the personality of the guitar.

I think though is if one is talking about 335 or es-175...it is usually wanting to switch from jazz to blues/rock. So just a moderately hotter pickup will usually work.

[wintermoon]

"A bridge pickup on a Jazz guitar is like and appendix, you ignore it and hope it doesn't go bad and mess everything up."

I lived by this thought since I started playing until just a few yrs ago. I always use full depth archtops, like an L-5 or the Aria PE-180 and things can get boomy/muddy in certain situations.
I never use solely the bridge p.u., but sometimes I'll use both, it cuts the boomy/muddy out and is easier than spinning around and fiddling w/your amp, especially when playing rhythm.

I've also found that using both pickups in certain rooms takes some of the boominess out and adds a bit of clarity.
also works well if you play a funk/r&b type tune here and there in your set.

occasionally I'll even forget to switch back to just the neck p.u. as the blend works so well.

give it a try, you might like it....

[Greentone]

Funk sounds GREAT played on a CES-type archtop on both pickups. James Brown's guitarist used to do this. So did Freddie Stone with Sly and the Family Stone (L5CES).

[wintermoon]

Agreed, he used an L-5 in the studio, but usually a Byrdland on stage..

[GNAPPI]

Guitar is telling you: Who really plays the bridge pickup? :^*

I disagree, it may just be that it's a setup or dull pup issue.

As far as who uses the bridge pup goes... I play mine. With the neck at 10, bridge ~8 and the tone rolled off a bit on the bridge you get voices you can't get with the neck alone, unless you're prepared to diddle with the amp EQ all night? Why give that simplicity up? Maybe for some minutely perceived increase in top resonance with one pup? With an amp? In a band? Nah!

Also (lest we forget) that not everyone uses a 175 or similar guitar for Jazz, Jan Akkerman, Steve Howe are two (possibly the only two) of note. I'll bet that the 175D outsells the single pup 175 by a factor of 5+, why would that be?

As I see it the 175 and most other guitars played by Jazzers and rockers sell with two pups(Gibson CES, 335 models etc.) not one. If Gibson or any other company made guitars with only one pup they'd be bankrupt or a VERY SMALL company. I could be mistaken but I don't think so.

Anyway, here's a pic of Demiola at a Montreal Jazz fest with the switch in the middle:

[SuperFour00]

Here's how I set my 175. Bridge pick-up 1/16 below the E strings when fretted at the 12th fret. Adjust height of neck pick-up to same volume as bridge pick-up. That will vary from guitar to guitar, but it will be lower than the bridge pick-up. The neck pick-up will seem quieter, but also less boomy and muddy.

[pubylakeg]

Does anybody else here lower the bass side of their neck p/up ?.

[Chazmo]

Here's how I set my 175. Bridge pick-up 1/16 below the E strings when fretted at the 12th fret. Adjust height of neck pick-up to same volume as bridge pick-up. That will vary from guitar to guitar, but it will be lower than the bridge pick-up. The neck pick-up will seem quieter, but also less boomy and muddy.

My approach on two pickups guitars is kind of the opposite, but it may get to nearly the same place. First I set the neck pickup, because that is the one I really care about. I set the neck pickup 3/32" below the E strings when fretted at the last fret, then move it up a quarter turn at a time until I get the fat tone I'm looking for on the high E. I usually then lower the bass side until the boominess goes away--maybe up to about 1/32" lower than the treble side.

After I set the neck pickup I adjust the bridge pickup 1/16" below the E strings when fretted at the last fret and then lower each side until it matches the volume of the neck pickup.

I do not use the bridge pickup often, but sometimes in a live situation I need a little more treble to cut through the mix and it is easier on the fly to hit the switch to the middle position than reach down to fiddle wth the amp.

[Finn]

Does anybody else here lower the bass side of their neck p/up ?.

Only if it doesn't have adjustable pole pieces, normally I keep the pickup the same distance both sides and adjust the pole pieces for string balance.

[LtKojak]

I use the bridge pickup quite a bit, both on it's own and mixed in. I find that the bridge pickup with the tone turned down a bit gets a nice trumpet-like tone. I also like to play a bit of rockabilly. The strings are 12s -- flats.

I own an all-maple L5 CES copy w/12 flats too, so maybe this might help you with your setup.

I don't have your p'ups, but an APH1 set with an A3 magnet in the neck as this particular instrument has a natural resonance in the low-mids, home of the mud.

The height settings I use, taken fretting the first and sixth string at the last fret, are 2.5mm in the bridge p'up and 4mm in the sixth string and 3.5mm in the first string. There I've found the "sweet spot". I suggest you take these measures as starting points and trust your ears for the fine-tuning.

HTH,

[Woody Sound]

What strings? Jazz strings are stiff and don't wiggle much at the bridge. With 9 ' s it's a better comparison between the two pickups. I keep a hotter bridge pu (Seymour Duncan) in the bridge of my 335 to give life to the 11s I play.

This is interesting, I never thought about that issue, thanks. I only have one dual pickup jazz guitar. I think the next time I change strings I'll throw on a cheap light set first just to test that out.

[GNAPPI]

As a purely unscientific check, I queried Ebay Gibson ES-175. Weeded out epiphones, and guitar parts and got 56 guitars. Of them 47 were "D" models, 9 were ES-175 single pups post 1953 models (The D was introduced in 1953) so I did not count 3 53/pre 53 175's because the D was not out yet. Sooo... 47/9=5.22

So my guess of 5x was pretty close to right on. So who uses a bridge pup? Five times more than neck pup alone? Maybe? At least on a 175? :-)