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By versatile i mean "appropriate" to many styles of music including jazz.
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09-16-2014 08:11 PM
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Who are these legions of naysayers?
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so much for "appropriate"....
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Got my 335 about 1975 and it was my go to guitar for any style of music. Second choice was my Tele. A Les Paul I don't see myself using on Funk or Country gigs, could do it in a pinch but wouldn't be my first choice. SG is a guitar I've always wanted, then I play one for five minutes and it goes back on the shelf, that neck stuck out on end of body is too strange for me. Both a Paul and SG I think thick sound, not Country Twang or Funky skanky sound.
Last edited by docbop; 09-16-2014 at 09:44 PM.
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I've never spent long enough with a 335 to tell from personal experience, but by the very nature of its construction, ie, semi-hollow with a centre block, it's a little bit hollow, a little bit solid, so you can elicit some sweet traditional Jazz tones as well as fierce distorsion sounds from it. That's about it, I think.
No fair the pics of Al Di Meola and Mike Stern. That's fusion!
btw, there's a guy on YouTube playing some nice Jazz on an SG.
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Well for a start, the 330 is almost the original blue print for all guitars. Its an archtop, hollow body. So everything kinda spreads away from that. So if anything the 330 and (335) can do a bit of everything because its essentially the centre of the guitar music world.
The opposite to this however, is that the further away you go, from the centre, the harder it is to get back to it (i.e. genre crossing). A les paul that wants to play classic flamenco has to go from one end of a branch, through the middle and right out the other end to 'Classical' guitar branch tip.
(I hope this all makes sense).
In reality you can get any guitar to play anything. Sure it wont sound 'Right' in a traditional sense but thats why different Genres form. The post moder Kenny Wheeler movement was taken up by solid body players because those guitars were more suited to the people playing them, for whatever reasons.
Although anyone of them could have used a 335 or 330 (just) to do the same. The tele came out as the weapon of choice and thus a following for Teles in Jazz made its crossover.
The SG and Les paul had no real champions (Sg shudder), so In a way, that is why they are not as genre crossing as the other two, perhaps.
I will get into a little bit of trouble here (cause theres lots of Tele fans lurking about), I would bet my bottom dollar, that if Ed and Ted came out playing a Les Paul, none of this Tele talk would be happening.
And so back to my point, it just by default, didn't have enough champions at the righ time. Sure, your probably screaming LES PAUL DURP! but like I said, its all about timing.
Why your even bothering to mention an SG is beyond me lol. Does anyone still use them in any sort of music?
DocBop is also right. Les pauls and Sg's just aren't that versatile. They are on the wrong branches of the tree, so to speak.Last edited by GoergeBenson; 09-16-2014 at 08:49 PM.
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Mike Stern doesn't always play fusion...but he does always play a T style.
Truth of the matter, I don't think the 330 is all that versatile...it has a very distinctive style.
A tele and a 335 can cover almost every electric guitar tone possible.
Les Pauls and SG's are cool, but it's almost impossible for them to give up that set neck solidbody sustain. Not that that's a bad thing. But they're far less versatile. Imho.
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Stern, the times I've heard him, certainly tends to use an effected sound, (which one tends to associate with fusion ..)
The LP's sustain can be attenuated by the simple expedient of using flatwounds and screwing the pickups down almost flush. Been there. The result is a solid thud, (unsurprisingly), which may or may not please.
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That's kind of a narrow view on what jazz is.
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user error
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Yeah, not Fusion. Nothing to do with his use of effects, but with his lines, to my ears, he's like building up to something the whole time without ever getting there. It's an emotional thing. Anyway, thanks for posting.
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I used "appropriate" with quotation marks for the right reasons. That being said the stars above are pretty much the exceptions that prove the rule. There's one jazz guy missing by the way …Les Paul himself ! Don't know any jazz guy on SG. I guess SG didn't stand for Slim Gaillard originally. lol
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If Metheny played a SG, he would still sound like Metheny (of course, he will have an opinion...he always does). Same to be expected if Cobain played an L5.
I think a LP and SG can definitely be used for jazz. Especially if those instruments were strung with flatwounds. I have more concerns about the structural integrity of an SG's headstock (when strung with flatwounds) than I do it's capabilities in jazz music. (but that's another story for another day..)
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Against long sustain doesn't using a trapeze tailpiece help significantly?
This guy makes me forget about the SG - ACDC connection .
At 3:50 plus some Debussy at the end.
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I never liked Gibson/Gibson type guitars 'cause they've got too many knobs - I was always fighting to get any kind of tone that I liked. That's why, for me, and imho the Fender Telecaster is the PERFECT guitar for just about any style of amplified music - easy to work on, build and upgrade, only 2 knobs and a switch, lotsa different pickup combinations for your choice of tone, any color or wood combination you might want AND, in a pinch, you can protect yourself in a bar fight with very little retuning required. Can't do that with an L-5. YMMV.
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To my ears anyway I still think a 335 sounds more like a solid body than a hollow body. I have two Gibson L6-S guitars that are my 'go to' guitars... I can cover most styles with them. They're both strung up with 12-50 Thomastik flats. One has Lawrence L90 humbuckers and the other has Lawrence L609 noisefree single coils (like a hi-fi p90 I guess). They seem to do the 'thunk' sound well on the low strings which I haven't heard in most solid bodies... I usually would associate that sound with a laminated archtop.
I have no doubt that a Les Paul wouldn't make a good jazz guitar. A guitar I've always wanted to get one day is the Gibson Les Paul Recording. The low impedance pickups sound great. I'm very partial to hifi pickups, hence why I use the Bill Lawrence pickups in my other guitars. I can still get mellow sounds, but with out the mud on the low strings. In saying that, I still think the Charlie Christian and the DeArmond pickups are the best for archtops.
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Actually the original what is called a SG were called Les Pauls. Les' musical partner Mary Ford had trouble with the weight of the original Les Paul guitar so the SG-type body became a Les Pauls model for a short time. Then the SG became is own model.
Originally Posted by cyberprimate
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Guitars I've used for straight-ahead Jazz gigs and sessions: SG, Les Paul, Telecaster, Stratocaster, 335, 225, 175, L-5, Super 400. I didn't have a problem getting a suitable sound out of any of them. I have preferences, but they will all deliver with the right strings and amp. In the real world though, the crowd at Jax or Steamers really want to see an archtop for straight-ahead or bebop. I understand the allure of traditional instruments, and since I favor archtops for their feel and sound, I don't fight the stereotypes. If I preferred solidbodies for Jazz, I'd have more difficult choices to make.
Honestly, my 335's versatility is more a matter of image than tone ... I can get an identical sound from my Les Paul with flatwounds.
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I can't adequately answer the TS's question, but I do know that since I got my ES-333 (lower budget ES-335) I do everything on it.... my strats and archtops sit in their cases and even a weekly gig I do with a singer that initially was an (amplified) acoustic thing with my flat top steel string became much nicer when I started using the ES-333...
It just always sounds good to my ears, is super comfy to play and goes from smokey dark to country bright.
(Pssst.... don't tell my wife... she still thinks I need all my other guitars)
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The 330 being hollow w/p90s and a trapeze is the odd duck in this group, and probably is the least versatile, but still an awesome sounding guitar.
The SG, Les Paul, and 335 are so similar, solid from tuners to tailpiece, with the same basic necks and scale, same TOM bridge, stop tailpiece, same paf style pickups, they are tonally pretty much the same guitar. I've played those 3 a bit and there isn't a sound that one makes that can't be replicated on all 3, IMO. Listen fo' yo'selfs...
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minimal differences indeed. In theory the neck pickup on the sg should sound less thick and bassy (all other factors being equal) since it's closer to the bridge than on the other two guitars.
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perhaps some of it is about perception. Les Pauls and SGs are percieved as rock instruments whereas the 335 with its partially hollow construction, F holes etc simply look more akin to the instruments traditionally used in jazz.
Ulf Wakenius have no problem sounding jazz on a Les Paul
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Originally Posted by cyberprimate
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Used to have a 90's Gibson Les Paul Special. S/cut, stop bar & T.O.M. bridge, P100 stacked h/buckers. Fantastic guitar, great for Jazz strung with flats. 90's ones are still a bargain. Mine had the 50's Les Paul rounded profile neck. I Don't like the slim taper profile on the newer Les Paul Junior Special.
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Originally Posted by Woody Sound
holding their "axes".
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