Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - George Benson Model

[jazzbow]

Check it out hombres

[jorgemg1984]

So it's finally here! I posted the PG article where he said he would have a signature amp

It has two drives - funny... And it seems like a regular HRD with an AT7 and a C12k, it's easy to get one used and mod it (if you forget the cabinet material). It seems like the amp has the regular HRD voicing... I was expecting something more unique to tell you the truth.

[Gabe]

So it's finally here! I posted the PG article where he said he would have a signature amp

It has two drives - funny... And it seems like a regular HRD with an AT7 and a C12k, it's easy to get one used and mod it (if you forget the cabinet material). It seems like the amp has the regular HRD voicing... I was expecting something more unique to tell you the truth.

These are exactly my thoughts, it doesn't seem like they've changed a whole lot about the amp.

[NSJ]

A couple years ago, George was playing the Symphony Center and needed a specific amp for the occasion.

So, he stopped by my teacher's house first and picked it up. It was not a Fender.

It was a Polytone. He's always used a Polytone. Did you get the oblique references to his Polytone amp in that commercial?

[Kuz]

I find this quite interesting....



I recently purchased via iTunes the concert film "Absolutely Live Benson" recorded in Ireland in 2000. It looked like GB was playing through a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. It sounded decent and I just assumed that it was a one-off rental from Ireland. You know, a last minute, "get me a Fender amp" because GB didn't want to fool with hauling his amps on tour.



I never thought that he actually PREFERRED a Hot Rod Deluxe???!!!



Just goes to show, it's the guitarist, not the gear!!! (but what is the fun in that??!!!!!!!)

[Jabberwocky]

Funny thing is GB is shown playing his IBANEZ archtop and the Fender amp features the headstock inlay from the Ibby. You'd think that Fender would scarf up and push a Fender D'Aquisto or a Stephen Stern carved one-off Gretsch archtop into George's hands or a Fender Custom Shop special. It is just free press for Ibanez. The guys at Ibby must be grinning.

What does this portend? Ibanez (or rather Hoshino) buying up Fender?

[docbop]

Funny thing is GB is shown playing his IBANEZ archtop and the Fender amp features the headstock inlay from the Ibby. You'd think that Fender would scarf up and push a Fender D'Aquisto or a Stephen Stern carved one-off Gretsch archtop into George's hands or a Fender Custom Shop special. It is just free press for Ibanez. The guys at Ibby must be grinning.

What does this portend? Ibanez (or rather Hoshino) buying up Fender?

I would say GB's contract with Ibanez requires he use there guitars in public. Probably Ibanez and Fender legal departments worked out an agreements to let GB endorse an amp only.

[Jabberwocky]

I would say GB's contract with Ibanez requires he use there guitars in public. Probably Ibanez and Fender legal departments worked out an agreements to let GB endorse an amp only.

Yeah, but in that video the thing that stood out was the Ibanez name on the headstock and the GB guitar. This is not a public presentation so I don't think GB's contract with Ibanez covers a privately funded advertisement like this. Whatever it is though, since Fender sells guitars, I find it unusual for it to feature a competitor's product. They could have digitally blurred out the Ibanez name, for instance. It is like featuring Jessica Alba in a Pepsi ad swigging Pepsi wearing a Coco-cola T-shirt.

[Flat]

That amp does sound great!

It's not quite the deep, round Polytone sound I associate with some of GB's recordings. A little thinner, maybe more cut-through? Still very, very nice. It's got a little of that lovely clean Fender glassy tone blended in too, which is great.

Nice to read some good Fender news!

[Frank67]

I confess that I never was the biggest fan of the Hotrod and was also surprised that Fender did not go with a more powerful Deluxe Reverb or something like that. But last week I heard Joscho Stephan playing an L4 through a stock Hotrod Deluxe and he sounded amazing (.... well, I guess that guy would sound amazing playing through an old 20$ radio :-)).

The modifications that Fender made for the Benson amp are certainly not huge and they will probably charge a premium for it. Still, it sounds like a pretty nice tube amp. I like the "crisp" that Fender amps add to the sound of a jazz guitar - something I haven't ever heard from a SS amp.

[Little Jay]

Just for information-sharing's sake: inspired by this topic I tried an old (NOS?) East German RFT Neuhaus 12AT7 in the V1 of my Blues Deluxe and all I can say is: wow! Should have tried that before! It tames down the amp in a very pleasant way, making the tones richer, lusher and of course also less gainier. It adds a bit more brightness, not per se treble, but clarity and punch.The volume-control is also much more useable now. So I guess George was right to use a 12AT7 in his amp…. Next step is to try the Jensen C12K that I have laying around.

[Jabberwocky]

Just for information-sharing's sake: inspired by this topic I tried an old (NOS?) East German RFT Neuhaus 12AT7 in the V1 of my Blues Deluxe and all I can say is: wow! Should have tried that before! It tames down the amp in a very pleasant way, making the tones richer, lusher and of course also less gainier. It adds a bit more brightness, not per se treble, but clarity and punch.The volume-control is also much more useable now. So I guess George was right to use a 12AT7 in his amp…. Next step is to try the Jensen C12K that I have laying around.

I guess I was carping a little. Apologies if I raised any hackles in any of you gentlefolks.

It is a nice sounding amp in the video. I sorta guessed the only difference is in the use of a lower gain 12AT7 in one of the drive stages, grey-black Tolex, and that GB logo. But it is good to see good old Uncle George being recognized as still being relevant in this age. I like the old guy.

[ooglybong]

So I can stick my spare AT tube into my own HRD for now to check out the difference and then maybe pop for that Jensen speaker, too, if I like where it's going tonally. If those are the only two differences from the stock HRD, well, maybe then I'll end up yet with another jazz amp. (Like I need another one! Of course, the jazz is gonna be more in my hands and my head than the amp, but I think ya'll get it!) ' Still wish they'd have brought back the Jazzmaster Ultralight, though.

Oh, yeah. Great playing here by George, too!

[Jimmy Mack]

He's played thru Twin Reverbs too.

[monkmiles]

Back to this Hot Rod Deluxe for a minute... Fender amps typically have two inputs , one low gain and the other higher gain. Using the lower gain input with a 12ax7 should get you similar results as using the higher gain input with a 12at7. On top of that, my preference would be a 5751 instead of a 12at7. I used to use a 5751 in my amps, but then I went back to a 12ax7 and using the low gain input for when I wanted less preamp gain.

I love Fender amps and have owned a bunch...and still own 3. But this is cheesy in my eyes as the "mods" to it aren't even what I would consider a mod. Yet they will rack up the price compared to a regular Hot Rod Deluxe.

[Double 07]

I'm wondering if , besides the speaker change, they did more than just switch the tube to a 12AT7, if maybe they also tweaked the circuit a bit around that new tube for the GB amp? I would bet they probably did but, of course, I have no way of knowing until I hear from Fender or a knowledgeable tech about it.

It sounds amazing, especially the part where he's playing while the narration is playing concurrently. Great stories from George . I do wish there had been more of the playing on the video to hear more of the sounds of the amp tho.

[Little Jay]

Fender amps typically have two inputs , one low gain and the other higher gain. Using the lower gain input with a 12ax7 should get you similar results as using the higher gain input with a 12at7

FWIW: I found the effect of using a 12AT7 quite differrent from using the low-input...... (I am keeping the 12AT7 instead of the 12AX7 btw).

[docbop]

Back to this Hot Rod Deluxe for a minute... Fender amps typically have two inputs , one low gain and the other higher gain. Using the lower gain input with a 12ax7 should get you similar results as using the higher gain input with a 12at7. On top of that, my preference would be a 5751 instead of a 12at7. I used to use a 5751 in my amps, but then I went back to a 12ax7 and using the low gain input for when I wanted less preamp gain.

I love Fender amps and have owned a bunch...and still own 3. But this is cheesy in my eyes as the "mods" to it aren't even what I would consider a mod. Yet they will rack up the price compared to a regular Hot Rod Deluxe.

It's just a easy/inexpensive change to the bill of materials and some royalties to GB to get a new model for GB fans, Fender collectors, and few others who don't realize they can make the changes themselves. I doubt it will be big seller depending on price bump to cover what they have to pay GB.

I say bringing back the old Ultralight would of been a bigger seller. The amp exists from point of design, manufacturing process, passing country/state certifications, and so on. So they make some cosmetic changes to put GB logo on and they have good jazz amp capable of the classic Benson sound.

[Double 07]

No, using the low gain input would not sound the same as the tube swap. Swapping a tube like that does more than just lower the gain it also changes the tonal characteristics of the circuit.

[monkmiles]

No, using the low gain input would not sound the same as the tube swap. Swapping a tube like that does more than just lower the gain it also changes the tonal characteristics of the circuit.

Well then I stand corrected. Thanks for the info. I guess I made an assumption that it was just the lower preamp gain one would be going for.

Those that are going to try different tubes, give a good 5751 a shot too. There's lot of articles online giving comparisons of v1 preamp tubes to try.

[fumblefingers]

It's just a easy/inexpensive change to the bill of materials and some royalties to GB to get a new model for GB fans, Fender collectors, and few others who don't realize they can make the changes themselves. I doubt it will be big seller depending on price bump to cover what they have to pay GB.

I say bringing back the old Ultralight would of been a bigger seller. The amp exists from point of design, manufacturing process, passing country/state certifications, and so on. So they make some cosmetic changes to put GB logo on and they have good jazz amp capable of the classic Benson sound.

i don't want to start a debate DB, but i must disagree on this point.

that amp was discontinued, no doubt due to low sales performance. so, it has a stigma from the consumer's point of view, and a lack of confidence from Fender's point of view (I would speculate).

oh, and one more thing - it wasn't a tube amp. you can bet the choice to go with a tube model was no mistake. i mean, just look at all the "insert-name-here reverb" Fender models people on this very site tell you to buy when you ask "whats a good amp for jazz guitar"?

besides, why should Fender try to be Acoustic Image or Raezors Edge, etc, etc? they've already tried that and failed - with the Jazz UL.

i think that the new amp is very handsome indeed. and given the success and staying power of GB's name for both TI strings and the Ibanez guitars? - my guess is that Fender will do well with this amp generally speaking. (but also generally speaking - this is a tough time to launch a new product.) it's actual sales price (not MSRP) will still probably be quite competitive with the Rivera amp that i mentioned recently in another post and above, and with a nice Mesa Boogie.

[docbop]

i don't want to start a debate DB, but i must disagree on this point.

that amp was discontinued, no doubt due to low sales performance. so, it has a stigma from the consumer's point of view, and a lack of confidence from Fender's point of view (I would speculate).

oh, and one more thing - it wasn't a tube amp. you can bet the choice to go with a tube model was no mistake. i mean, just look at all the "insert-name-here reverb" Fender models people on this very site tell you to buy when you ask "whats a good amp for jazz guitar"?

besides, why should Fender try to be Acoustic Image or Raezors Edge, etc, etc? they've already tried that and failed - with the Jazz UL.

i think that the new amp is very handsome indeed. and given the success and staying power of GB's name for both TI strings and the Ibanez guitars? - my guess is that Fender will do well with this amp generally speaking. (but also generally speaking - this is a tough time to launch a new product.) it's actual sales price (not MSRP) will still probably be quite competitive with the Rivera amp that i mentioned recently in another post and above, and with a nice Mesa Boogie.

You don't think Bensons logo and endorsement would make for a marketing campaign to make people aware of a Fender SS Jazz amp. Fender didn't market the UL very much, probably what killed it.

This amp is not anywhere near the class of a Rivera or a Boogie. Pricing is going to be everything for this amp. A small bump for Benson name it will sell, too big a bump people will buy the standard model and mod it themselves, wouldn't you?

So we can sit back see where the amp is at a year after it's released.

[fumblefingers]

You don't think Bensons logo and endorsement would make for a marketing campaign to make people aware of a Fender SS Jazz amp. Fender didn't market the UL very much, probably what killed it.

This amp is not anywhere near the class of a Rivera or a Boogie. Pricing is going to be everything for this amp. A small bump for Benson name it will sell, too big a bump people will buy the standard model and mod it themselves, wouldn't you?

So we can sit back see where the amp is at a year after it's released.

well, pricing is out already - on Fender's web site. the final sales price should be 10-15% off MSRP now, and more later in its product life cycle. and yes, it's cheaper than that Rivera amp like i said. so it shouldn't be in the same class as a more expensive amp, should it?

and no, i think that a lot of advertising dollars spent on a small SS jazz amp would be a loss leader for Fender. granted, some people may want that kind of amp but i think that they want it from somebody else, and that they want a tube amp from Fender.

IMO.

[SamBooka]

Back to this Hot Rod Deluxe for a minute... Fender amps typically have two inputs , one low gain and the other higher gain. Using the lower gain input with a 12ax7 should get you similar results as using the higher gain input with a 12at7. On top of that, my preference would be a 5751 instead of a 12at7. I used to use a 5751 in my amps, but then I went back to a 12ax7 and using the low gain input for when I wanted less preamp gain.

I love Fender amps and have owned a bunch...and still own 3. But this is cheesy in my eyes as the "mods" to it aren't even what I would consider a mod. Yet they will rack up the price compared to a regular Hot Rod Deluxe.

1) +1 on a 5751.. 12at7 never did it for me but that is in classic fender amps. Look at the schematics of the new amps and these are far from the DR of old.
2) I would have to see what the schematic is to find what other mods have been made (Fender doesnt always mention these things since they really havent said much at all about this amp)
3)Dont forget mr Benson gets a cut of every amp sold, tack that on to the price. And from other articles I have read fender is pretty generous with their endorsement deals.

I am a small amp guy so until they make a George Benson Hot Rod Vibro Champ Reverb I am S.O.L.

[docbop]

It's $1200 list vs $1000 for non-Benson. So medium sized bump for a different tube, speaker, and cosmetics. So it will be interested to see how it sells after Fender collectors and Benson fans sales die down.