My signal Chain - Question

**hans halmackenreuter** · 02-26-2015, 03:09 PM

Hi everyone,

my signal chain is Amp<-TC-hof<-TC-flaschback<-BarbEQ<-Overdrive<-guitar.

I like my chain a lot, but lately I realized, that I hardly use my flashback, although I like it a lot I don't use delay that much these days. I am thinking about replacing my flaschback with a Zoom MS-50g, because this unit will give me the opportunity to use delay and some other fx as well (tremolo, flanger or some filters). I don't want to buy pedals for all the fx nor do I want to rely on a multi-fx-unit only. The rest of my pedal board works perfect for me, but I like the idea of some fun fx for crazy moments

and a small pedal board. What do you think of this pedal? Do you know a better solution?

p.s. I had the Zoom G5 for a while so I know the general sound of their FX quit a bit.

**spiral** · 02-26-2015, 03:40 PM

Your board is similar to mine: I have the TC HoF & FB w/ a Boomerang III.

Don't know much about it but ran across this Digitech RP360 multi-effect recently for $150 street:
RP360 | DigiTech Guitar Effects
They make the Hardwire series so I would hope the sound quality would be as good. It has a looper and drum presets ... probably similar to the Zoom G3.

I hesitate to suggest this because it is slightly overkill / expensive but I just got an Eventide H9 and that could cover pretty much any modulation, delay, pitch, reverb, and time effect you could imagine. It could potentially replace both of your TC pedals, which is why I am doing.

Sorry that wasn't an answer at all and I just threw more options on the pile.

**hans halmackenreuter** · 02-26-2015, 04:45 PM

Well Eventide products have a good reputation, it's not in my budget, but if it could replace both my tc's than there is definitely some chance for it. I will check it on saturday. having a small board is important for me. Thanks for the input

**spiral** · 02-26-2015, 07:17 PM

As for the Zoom MS-50G ... Won't it sound identical to the G3/G5 since they use the same processor? My impression was that they used the same engine / software / algorithms, so if you liked the G5, the MS-50G should be the same but with just 1 slot.

[edit]
Nosoyninja owns the MS-50G:
Zoom G3X questions

**Greentone** · 02-26-2015, 09:29 PM

My signal chain is guitar...amp. Sitting in a cardboard box I have a late-60s Cry Baby pedal, a 70s Electro-Harmonix Small Stone Phaser, a 70s MXR 10-band Equalizer, a TC Electronics Ditto looper, an MXR Carbon Copy analog delay, and an early-80s Rockman. I like all of the effects--especially the wah pedal--but honestly, they hardly ever come out of the cardboard box in the studio. I don't even use my Fender outboard reverb unit anymore.

I know that most of the effects are hopelessly old school. More old school, still, is just running a guitar into a dry amp. That's what sounds the best, to me, though. Most days, it's just a Telecaster into a tweed Deluxe, or a Super Eagle into an old Polytone MiniBrute.

Simple signal chains sound very, very good. This is especially true when you are playing in a group setting.

**s1track3d** · 02-27-2015, 02:56 AM

I don't know about this pedal specifically but it is small, much like a standard stop box, which seems rare for a multi-fx and fits with your desire of a small board.

my hunch is that it's not true bypass, (I haven't seen any multi-fx units that are) to save tone, you may want to run it through a bypass looper so that it's only in your signal chain when you are using it.

**jorgemg1984** · 02-27-2015, 06:33 AM

Hans I have the ms50g, ms100bt and ms70cdr. They sound the same as my G3 did and I asume the G5. Any of the three pedals sounds absolutely great, I no longer use individual fx, can't tell the difference.

I would go with the ms70cdr or the ms100bt. If you can live with only modulation and delay - go with ms70cdr, cheaper and a lot more options than the ms50g. The ms100bt is the best of all.. stock is an ms50g but you can buy a lot of fx on the zoom store (ios only)... I can see it replacing your flashback, hof and overdrive and you'd still have room for 3 more effects (say parametric eq and 2 for crazy stuff). Oh and a tuner

**jorgemg1984** · 02-27-2015, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by Greentone

My signal chain is guitar...amp. Sitting in a cardboard box I have a late-60s Cry Baby pedal, a 70s Electro-Harmonix Small Stone Phaser, a 70s MXR 10-band Equalizer, a TC Electronics Ditto looper, an MXR Carbon Copy analog delay, and an early-80s Rockman. I like all of the effects--especially the wah pedal--but honestly, they hardly ever come out of the cardboard box in the studio. I don't even use my Fender outboard reverb unit anymore.

I know that most of the effects are hopelessly old school. More old school, still, is just running a guitar into a dry amp. That's what sounds the best, to me, though. Most days, it's just a Telecaster into a tweed Deluxe, or a Super Eagle into an old Polytone MiniBrute.

Simple signal chains sound very, very good. This is especially true when you are playing in a group setting.

This is the classic "don't use pedal" post that always comes when someone starts a pedal thread... Anyway, it's absolutely not true not using fx is better in a group context - how many guitar players record and gig in bands using fx? Countless, in all genres. A dry sound is much harder to impose in a band setting.

**jorgemg1984** · 02-27-2015, 06:45 AM

Just two more thoughts - the H9 only allows one effect at the time, the zoom allows 6; the zooms are not true bypass but they don't change the tone at all.. you can leave it on with all the fx off (as a tuner) and it won't colour your sound, no need for a bypass looper.

**palindrome** · 02-27-2015, 07:29 AM

Yeah, that's what I was thinking: H9 = one effect at a time. And the same applies to any of the multipurpose Eventide pedals. Another major drawback of these, as far as I am concerned, is that they are extremely difficult to adjust on the fly and that you don't readily see from the knobs and display what's going on inside.

Hidden parameters and multipurpose knobs are a deal breaker for me, and the Eventide Pitchfactor I once owned abounded in these. Non-intuitive to the umpteenth power.

How about an Electro Harmonix Epitome? (Haven't tried one, but looks great to me.)

**hans halmackenreuter** · 02-27-2015, 07:52 AM

first of all I want to thank all of you for your input.

@Greentone - I have an 5e3 myself and I often play this amp without any FX at all, but I like modern sounds as well, this is why I like to use fx too.

H9 with just one fx at a time is a no-go for me.

I will check out the ms-100bt and the cdr70. If I recall the delays of the G5 than I was really satisfied, but the reverb section was not that convincing, but I understand, that the cdr 70 and the ms100bt have new reverb modes, so I'll test them both tomorrow. Anyway, I don't mind selling just my flashback and keeping my hof together with a zoom unit. The concern, that the unit is not true bybass is not that important for me, because I can build a small bypass looper myself, if it should turn out to be a problem.

I will report tomorrow, which unit I like the most.

Thanks

**hans halmackenreuter** · 02-28-2015, 10:16 AM

So I tried both pedals, the ms70 and the ms-100. Sounds are good enough for me so far and some fx from the 70cdr are awesome, but it ain't got a para eq and filters, thats why the ms 100 seems more atractiv. I wonder if the bought fx patches are stored on the pedal or if it is stored on your ios-system? If it's not stored permanently on the pedal, than this pedal is useless for me, since I don't use an ios-system myself and I don't want to rely on others.

The store-staff couldn't answer me this question, so can you answer me this question? Can I store all the bought fx on the pedal or just one at the time?

**jorgemg1984** · 02-28-2015, 10:25 AM

I had the same doubt, took my chances and... they're stocked in the pedal. I went to a friend's house who has an iphone and boght all the fx I wanted and they stay there forever.

Two things to notice are 1) some of these fx are very demanding on the dsp so it's easy to reach the maximum level with just 3 or 4 2) not all (but almost all) ms70cdr fx are available for purchase.

**hans halmackenreuter** · 02-28-2015, 10:30 AM

Thank you for your quick answer!

**jorgemg1984** · 02-28-2015, 10:45 AM

Enjoy the pedal Hans!

**DanielleOM** · 06-10-2015, 08:02 AM

I was playing here with my older Zoom G2.1u today and was thinking of upgrading to something newer. Has anyone figured out the differences between the Zoom MS-100BT and the Zoom MS-70CDR? As I do not own any IOS devices I am thinking there is no advantage to me in going to the MS-100BT. I also wonder if owning an IOS device is a prerequisite before buying the MS-100BT.

How do people find the displays on these? Can you read them at an outdoor event?

I did the G3 and G3X have been around for a while now. One site showed the G3 as being discontinued but they still sell the G3X. I wonder if these are going to be updated soon.

Not quite sure what I want to do. I happened to have a Studio Projects VTB1 here and tried that in front of the G2.1u and found I did like what it did. Not sure I want to use that live. I still want to keep things compact.

Danielle

**jorgemg1984** · 06-10-2015, 08:25 AM

MS50G - G3 in a pedal

MS70CDR - only chorus delay reverbs but a lot more options than MS50G and cheaper (and still graphic eq)

Ms100BT - G3 in a pedal but you can buy extra fx on the ios store. I don't have an ios device but I ask a friend when I want to buy some, takes 5 minutes. There are some nice fx on the store, specially overdrives. Stock overdrives on the MS50G are so so but the Tube Screamer and Klon emulations of the store are quite good.

I have all 3 pedals. What do you want them for?

**DanielleOM** · 06-10-2015, 10:15 AM

"What do I want them for?"

I am not quite sure where I am going with all of this as I really want to stay compact, and it's probably a real challenge than just using my G2.1u. When we perform I do not use a guitar amp. I take the stereo output from the G2.1u, and go to two channels on a mixer with the channels panned left and right.

On the G2.1u, I use the jazz chorus amp sim, jazz chorus stereo effect, and reverb. I use the tuner and the volume pedal, however I use the volume pedal primarily at it's extreme positions as an on off device.

Trying to figure out how to keep things compact but also add a tiny touch of compression and warmth, via an effect or tube. I was wondering if that newer Zoom processor, and associated effects can add any tube like warmth.

I was able to confirm what you were telling me regarding the MS70CDR. The effects were limited to chorus, delay and reverb. (Although there were a lot more variations than I see in my G2.1u. No amp sims or compression)

**jorgemg1984** · 06-10-2015, 10:33 AM

If you need modelling the MS70CDR is out. The other two have the same modelling, I am not sure it's any upgrade from your pedal, I doubt it. They are decent sounding units for modelling but not more... I don't honestly thunk the upgrad eis worth it unless space is THAT important,

**DanielleOM** · 06-10-2015, 11:01 AM

I found the on line effects list for the MS100BT but not sure it's complete. I see a 2012 date on it.

I was surprised not to be able to see a Jazz Chorus amp sim.

Seems like there's a lot more compressor choices. For the ones shown I did not see a way to mix dry wet signals.

Danielle