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Hi you all, after my intensive look out for a good used ES 175, I end up to take the advantage of a Gibson shop sale and I came back home with a brand new Ebony (black gloss) with P94 and Bigsby, priced as a korean.
As I changed the strings (from round wounded to flat) I noticed the low-E buzzing against the frets (original strings didn't make it), so I raised the upper side of the bridge and it sounded better. After playing it for a while, I also noticed that notes on E-first and on B sounded as having a chorus effect barely audible, as two sounds are coming playing one. This happens using no amp. Could it be caused by having raised just the upper side of the bridge? Could it be a truss rod set up problem?
Thanks for help.Last edited by marceff; 04-15-2015 at 03:24 AM.
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04-15-2015 03:20 AM
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It could be the after length of string between the bridge and the tailpiece.
Sometimes they ring in sympathy with weird overtones. My solution is to cut a thin length of an old mousepad and weave it between the strings near the tailpiece.
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Thanks ColMc, didn't think of it... the tailpiece is the Bigsby, a heavy metal tailpiece. Later in the afternoon I'll try it.
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It could be lots of things - you have to eliminate them one by one. Could be overtones as ColMc says, could be the neck relief, could be a badly cut bridge slot or even a nut slot- I've had this 'chorus' sound with a B string nut slot. Could be a body or pickup spring vibration, scratch plate vibration even.
The first thing I would do is make sure the neck is adjusted correctly, with minimum relief, and that the bridge action is then adjusted to eliminate string buzzing.
Once that is done, see if you can hear where the sound is coming from. Common sources of vibration on the 175 are TOM bridge saddles & bridge retaining wire, pickup springs, pickup mounting rings, scratch plate, and overtones as above.
It's just possible that the truss rod is rattling, but very unlikely on a modern 175.
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Could you provide some pics?
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Thanks for tips, I'll check all them later on when I get back home and let you know. @ nickyboy: what kind of picture? I have checked the room between low-E and frets holding first and last frets together and looks ok, low-E string doesnt buzz anymore. The "chorus" sound is just barely audible and it doesn't show using the amp.
Is relief meant as a bit bent?
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For a solid body electric with .009s I set the neck relief by putting a capo on the first fret, pressing the low E string at 17th fret and using a feeler gauge to set .01in clearance at the 7th fret by turning the truss rod. Then I adjust bridge height.
I have no idea what the technique or setting should be for an archtop but would love to know.
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The flatwounds are they the same size as what was on there before, might need to have the nut checked. The ringing could be from string between the bring and tailpiece so easy enough to play something you know triggers it and then lightly put the palm of you hand on that area and see if it stops. If it is there lots of ways to deal with it something change brand of stings. On my old 175 I put some masking tape on the strings there. Some with weave a piece of felt thru the strings.
If you're new to archtop there are lots of things that can ring, buzz, rattle, and part of playing them is learning to track these annoyances down and deal with them. Tightening/loosing parts, finding sympathetic vibrations, and so on. Usually once you deal with them they stay away until you make some changes like string gauge, brige, pickups then it starts again. Welcome to world of archies.
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It's an electric guitar...as long as it doesn't come through the amp, you're good.
If you really want to get rid of the ringing, start with the tune-o-matic. Get a wood bridge on there...it'll be a big difference.
You can also try the felt or whatever between the strings...but that bridge is the culprit, I'd bet a beer on it.
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The issue is almost certainly caused by the different string tensions. The correct (and easy) way to fix this is a truss rod adjustment (1/8th of a turn should probably be enough) . I'd put the bridge height back where it was.
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He's got a boat anchor, oops sorry a Bigsby on it so the wood bridge might not work. Does it have one of those roller bridges those are a tone suck. Ditch the Bigsby and get a wood bridge and guitar will be much lighter too.
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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I had a similar issue with my Eastman copy of the es175. As a goof, why don't you unscrew the pick-guard where it connects to the side, then lift it up.
My pick-guard was buzzing where it sits on the pickup mount/housing (whatever its called). I solved it with a little wad of black tape to cushion the area.
That buzz was odd, it actually muted a few notes on the D string and gave a harmony effect on others almost like a "wolf note".
This may not be the issue, but you can at least rule it out.
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Get a good setup done, including a truss rod adjustment as the first step. Many of us have learned how to do basic setups ourselves, but if you are uncomfortable, pay someone to do it. It's not expensive and it can make a world of difference in playability and sound. There are lots of good instructions (and some bad) on the internet. Dan Erlewine's books and videos are great and Frank Ford's site at www.frets.com gives a lot of good info. It takes some practice.
As far as the question about solid body vs. hollow body neck adjustment, it's pretty similar. You just need to have some space in the middle of the neck. On all my guitars, flattop or archtop, I put a capo on top of the first fret and hold down the low E string at the 14th fret. This essentially gives you a straight edge to work with and you should see some gap in the middle of the neck. I loosen or tighten the truss rod nut to get .010" space between the top of the 7th fret and the low E string as measured with a feeler gauge you can get at an auto supply store. The .011" blade should rub some on the string and the .010" blade should just fit in the gap at the 7th fret.
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Thank you all guys for tips.
I've stopped the strings between bridge and tailpiece (boat anchor) and the "chorus" effect have gone. So no other buzzing of any kind affects my 175 and this is a quite good outcome. But I think I should go on with the setup. Yes I am new to archtop (and I should say to guitar as well), although I prefer to try to set it up myself.
I did check the room left by pushing first and last fret on the low E string and it seems quite wider then .010", at least by eye (I do not own measurement tools).
As I bought my 175, my first thought was to get rid of the "boat anchor" and replace it with a standard tailpiece, but I didn't think to replace the bridge too: good idea (what about the P94s PU? Wouldn't be better the Benedetto humbuckers?).
Now I'll check on the web about truss rod (should I use a dedicated tool for it?) and how to set it up and then go.
In the meanwhile if some other tip may jumps in your mind, please let me know.
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Originally Posted by docbop
A black twist tie (vinyl or plastic cover over the wire) seems to work pretty well, too....thread it through and tighten a little bit, but not taut. These are cheap, readily available, and visually unobtrusive as well. You can also braid two of them if you need more length....works in front of the nut, as well.
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You'll need a 5/16'' truss rod wrench. Look on Amazon or Ebay.
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Raney and Abersold, great interview.
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