UPS Guitar Shipping Advice

**Jabberwocky** · 05-07-2015, 01:51 AM

You are a good egg, Stringswinger. I like you. Hope you get good karma out of this.

Don't give up the ship, Vinny.

**silverfoxx** · 05-07-2015, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

Me and one of the most respected members on this forum decided to trade guitars. I live on the west coast and he lives on the east. Both guitars were new top of the line Gibson archtops. Both guitars were expertly packed in factory shipping boxes with the upmost care and fully insured with UPS. Both guitars were received damaged. The guitar I received had a broken pickguard and the bridge moved off center scratching the top (repairable). The guitar I shipped was received with the headstock broke off. Many pictures of both guitars were taken before shipping them. Pictures show both guitars in perfect condition. I filed a insurance claim for the destroyed Gibson with UPS. They have denied the claim insisting that since the box has no visible damage I either sent it broken or the receiver broke the guitar after it was delivered. Since I have many guitars I decided I would be the one to take the financial fall on this but I am out some very serious money. I am not savey in legal matters. Can anyone give me any good advice as how to go to battle with this corporate monster to get the insurance money that I paid for the guitar they destroyed ? UPS is treating me like a criminal and not like the total victim that I am. They are telling me that the preship pictures are meaningles to them as we could have taken them anytime. Any advice I would sincerely appreciate.........Vinny

n

Vinny.
This is a script from a horror movie, you have all of us with you on this ,UPS beware,
it's heartwarming to hear that several fellow members have offered good advice and
indeed some free legal help. I feel sure that we all wish you success and a happy
resolution to this horrendous experience. I suggest many here will refrain from using
UPS after this. Good luck we are all with you in spirit.

Best wishes Silverfoxx

**Little Jay** · 05-07-2015, 04:04 AM

Vinny, let me be clear firstly: if UPS handled your guitar with care, the head wouldn't have come off. But just out of curiosity: did support the neck and especially the headstock with extra padding like clothes of crumpled newspaper? Or was there room left under the headstock and the bottom of the case?

Unfortunately I have heard more stories about guitars shipped in their cases that had the headstock come off. Apparently the standard neck-support in a case actually works like a fulcrum point even causing the breaking, if the case falls flat on it's back (if this was the scenario, I am not surprised there's no damage to the packaging). This is even worse if you loosen the stings, as the string tension would provide some counter-force. Without the string-tension, there's surprisingly little force needed to make a headstock come off...... Although as is Jack, I am surprised to hear this happening to a 5-piece maple neck, so apparently it fell down with quite some force!

Not trying to let UPS off the hook, just trying to reconstruct what might have happened, maybe you can use it to your benefit.

**Phil in London** · 05-07-2015, 09:27 AM

I had the same issue here in Europe, response of UPS was a) not packaged properly, b) if packaged properly, then it could not have happened during the shipment, since package shows no damage.

In my experience, while this 'logic' is a chuzpe, it is difficult to challenge legally. What remained at the end was that I decided to never use UPS again, which worked fine so far. Roughly estimated, this has cost UPS much more than to cover the damage - they may make the mistake to see an individual only in his private role, not in a commercial context.

Good luck with your claim!

**vinnyv1k** · 05-07-2015, 10:27 AM

First off a huge THANK YOU to Marc for his expert advice. As far as the headstock I packed it with the factory pillow air bag plus a ton of extra padding in the headstock pocket area of the case. The headstock was far more protected than how Gibson ships them from the factory. Marc thank you for uplifting my spirits also. I need to go to Santa Cruz some day to hear your band and shake you hand bro.

**campusfive** · 05-07-2015, 11:42 AM

Definitely check with your homeowner's policy if you have one, and also, with any credit card you may have used in the transaction. Given that it was a swap, I'm guessing no money changed hands, but it's still another source of insurance.

I have all of my stuff insured with a musical instrument-specific policy, and that gives me some piece of mind as well.

**campusfive** · 05-07-2015, 11:47 AM

And yeah, that's some bullshit from UPS.

**mangotango** · 05-07-2015, 11:55 AM

Looks like the good karma that you acquired with the donation of the amplifier has come around to you, Vinny, with Stringswinger's intervention. Good to hear.

Seems there's some good people on this board, taking care of one another. Never mind the cynics, this is not a bad thing.

Vinny - good luck to you mate, hope it all works out. Stick to it and I'm sure that you'll get a result.

Best, Mangotango

**Stringswinger** · 05-07-2015, 03:27 PM

Vinny, I am glad to help. I will be playing this Friday at the Doubletree in Burlingame ( in the lounge) 6-9 PM. That is pretty close to you. Stop by with a guitar and sit in! I play that gig once or twice a month. Joining me in that trio will be Dale Mills on reeds and Carla Kaufman on bass. Dale and Carla are two of the Bay Area's best jazz musicians. I will bring my Acoustic Image/ Raezers Edge combo so you can plug in to my amp. Hope to see you there....

My regular Monday gig in Santa Cruz will not be happening the next two Mondays as the restaurant (Soif) is closed for a kitchen remodel. We will be back hopefully on the last Monday of this month. We have two gigs on the May calendar at Gayles in Capitola and we are also on the calendar at the Crow's Nest in Santa Cruz on the last Wednesday of this month.

To everyone on this forum, be careful when shipping guitars. It is a risky business. Buying insurance from a shipper only insures against their negligence, which can be difficult to prove. Having them or one of their agents do the packing, while more expensive, helps. Having multiple insurers also helps, but even with all of that, when something goes wrong, it will be a massive pain in the butt at best. Exercise caution.

Cheers to all,

Marc

**vinnyv1k** · 05-07-2015, 05:55 PM

Just a FYI to you guitar shippers. UPS is now saying the reason they denied my claim was the shipping box was not filled to the brim with styrofoam popcorn. Marc is right if you do ship via UPS pay the extra scratch and have them pack it for you. We sometimes have lessons hard learned. After my small claims court gig I will send the Tal to Gibson Repair and Restoration. They said they can make it like new again. Lucky it is vintage sunburst so when they refinish the neck they can completely hide the headstock repair with black shading. They said $650-800 + shipping both ways. Being very anal I will need to have the neck completely refinished to hide the break to be happy. Most cats would just glue the headstock back on and be good to go but I am a picky bastard or so says my wife. I appreciate all your kind words and advice everyone !!! UPS said they are shipping me back the guitar today. I will post pics when I get it. Joe took some pics when he got it. Maybe he can post a couple in the meantime. Thanks gents.....Vinny

**vinnyv1k** · 05-07-2015, 06:17 PM

Hey Marc I checked out your band on Youtube and you guys are awesome. Love your playing and the sound of your D.
Your clarinet player is fantastic. Played clarinet as a boy but had my tonsils removed and couldn't play it anymore. I love jazz clarinet. Really great sounding band. Really in the pocket.

**Jabberwocky** · 05-07-2015, 11:05 PM

Vinny, the TF will probably sound and play better after the repair. And be stronger for it.

Good luck at small claims court and I hope it rules in your favour. Don't give up the ship.

**Danny W.** · 05-07-2015, 11:08 PM

My Heritage insurance covers damage in shipping, regardless of whether I packed the guitar properly or not. When I had two guitars damaged Heritage covered the cost of repairs and the loss of value that the damage caused, and paid me with two weeks. I'd never rely on insurance from the shippers.

Danny W.

**vinnyv1k** · 05-07-2015, 11:47 PM

Thank you Jabber ! School of hard knocks Danny. Unfortunately I take people at their word. When I paid UPS for insurance on the guitar I believed they would honor the insurance contract I paid for. I'm just a old fool I reckon. I am a old school kid of a guy. I remember the days when your word and a handshake was a binding contract. The days of being honorable is just a fond memory. I have worked for the same company for decades. This company was once loved by everyone including me. Now I don't dare mention who I work for or I will be flamed to death. Just as bad as UPS. I remember when I was a kid nobody locked their homes or cars and just left the car keys in the ignition and we had no fears of any kind of harm or dishonesty. Today this world is being destroyed by ruthless corporate monsters. At least their are a lot of kind people here at JGF.

**Stringswinger** · 05-08-2015, 01:43 AM

Vinny,

Thanks for the kind words about my band, Hot Club Pacific. As you can see, I use my Vintage D'Angelico on gigs! Somehow, I think John D'Angelico approves, wherever he is...

Cheers,

Marc

**vinnyv1k** · 05-08-2015, 10:18 AM

Marc, Hot Club Pacific is a very polished band. I will make it a point to see you guys and yes I am sure John approves. IMO John & Jimmy are in heaven making archtops for us when we get there. :-) Thanks again Marc for your expert advice on this UPS matter. You were a blessing to me.

**KirkP** · 05-08-2015, 11:05 AM

I'm not questioning Vinny's packing job, but if anyone else is interested here are some packing tips from someone who ships and receives a lot of guitars.
http://www.archtop.com/ac_shipping.html

**Little Jay** · 05-08-2015, 01:58 PM

Not questioning Vinny's packing job either, with the padding he applied the package must have landed flat on it's back with quite a smack, to cause that amount of damage. With a lot more force than just an accidentally tipping over of the package. I suspect throwing it from a truck onto a conveyor belt or something. Hope things turn out well!

**marshall** · 05-08-2015, 02:24 PM

Vinny: l am inspired by your gentle words your generous spirit and integrity. Remember you can cheat an honest man but you can not make him a fool. No matter what the out come shine on.

**Bill C** · 05-08-2015, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by KIRKP

I'm not questioning Vinny's packing job, but if anyone else is interested here are some packing tips from someone who ships and receives a lot of guitars.
archtop.com: shipping your guitar

fwiw - I've shipped a few valuable guitars without problems following these tips.

**vinnyv1k** · 05-08-2015, 03:35 PM

I just talked to my luthier Frank Ford of frets.com about this. He is also the owner of Gryphon Stringed Instruments. He told me that UPS had broken countless guitars for his business and it was always a nightmare dealing with them and he stopped using them for a carrier years ago because of this. He also agrees with Danny W. as Heritage is the only and best way to go when it comes to insuring guitars.