Gibson TG-50 tenor guitar

**Eddie Lang** · 06-09-2015, 02:30 AM

Oh yeah!

I've been without a tenor guitar for a while now. I sold my last tenor guitar, a 1937 Martin 0-17T, about three years ago. At the time, the reasoning was that I wasn't good enough according to my standards on the CGDA-tuned instrument because I was not spending enough time with it to be as accomplished as I wished. I could do folk, cowboy and fiddle tunes accompaniment, but these are not the genres that I normally play, and I thought the step to jazz/swing was too big, and I just couldn't get close on tenor to the level I play on 6-string (not that I am that awesome). Well, I don't think that I have more time on my hands now, it's actually quite the opposite, but I decided to give it another try anyway. It will take whatever time I need, but I'll just work at it and enjoy the ride.

Ever since I sold that 0-17T, I regretted it. A few weeks ago, I traced the people who had bought it from me. They live in a small town a couple hours drive from here. The man had bought it for his wife. I asked if she still loved it. It turned out she does, but she is not really playing, so I offered to buy it back. They said they'd think about it and asked me to call again the next week. I was sure it was coming back home and I was so excited! Well, finally, they decided that the lady would give it another try, and they will let me know if they ever sell it. This is still exciting, because I consider that guitar "The One That Got Away", but I am still tenorless!

Now that I could feel that this tenor was coming back, I really wanted one again! So I've been checking over and over again all my usual spots online as well as rumaging through classified, comparing the relatively few guitars offered. Anyway, the search ended today. It should ship tomorrow or on Wednesday from the US East Coast and be here a few days after that. I am really looking forward to it!

**D.G.** · 06-11-2015, 06:38 PM

Why not just use Chicago tuning instead? I have a Blueridge tenor tuned in 5ths, but I mainly want it to play pseudo-celtic. For jazz/swing, I'd go with D-G-B-E, no learning curve

**Eddie Lang** · 06-11-2015, 08:22 PM

The guitar arrived this morning.

Tuned it up CGDA, and it sounds wonderful. I really love the voicings that tenor tuning alllows and that you can't get with DGBE.

This being said, you are absolutely right about the learning curve, D.G. I was faced with the same dilemma three years ago. It seemed even truer today after all this time without playing an instrument tuned in fifths. It will take me some time and effort, for sure! I guess that I am stubborn though, and I don't really see the advantage of having a four string guitar with the same top tones as a six six string guitar... I'll have to re-learn what I learned a few years ago, and this time, I'll have to go further.

**Jehu** · 06-11-2015, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by Eddie Lang

I don't really see the advantage of having a four string guitar with the same top tones as a six six string guitar...

You could be a reverse-Wes Montgomery! Although that would also entail getting progressively less famous over time.

Sweet axe.

**Eddie Lang** · 06-12-2015, 05:44 PM

So, as I mentioned, the TG-50 arrived yesterday. Now I think that pics are in order.

As I am determined to keep it tuned CGDA for now, I don't think that I am going to attempt a recording anytime soon. I've got a few months of studying and practicing before me!

1930-40s Swing comping and chord melody is what I would like to achieve on this guitar. Old Mills Brothers tunes come to mind, as well as some Cats and the Fiddle.

The Mills Brothers

The Cats and the Fiddle (Ernie Price and Austin Powell on tenor guitar)

Otto Heimel on tenor guitar

John Lawlor

David Cavage

Tyler Jackson

**Eddie Lang** · 06-12-2015, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Jehu

You could be a reverse-Wes Montgomery! Although that would also entail getting progressively less famous over time.

Sweet axe.

Less famous than I already am?!

**Rob MacKillop** · 06-12-2015, 06:43 PM

I'm very excited for you! It looks great - wish I had one. I did some playing in CGDA on a tenor banjo, and thought it wasn't impossible to get familiar with. You might look for some old 1930s tenor banjo tutor books. Look for videos by Eddy Davis, the Manhattan Minstrel - he plays banjo with Woody Allen's band, and has a lot of videos teaching the jazz style with this tuning. And if you ever talk to him, tell him Rob from Edinburgh says hello!

**Eddie Lang** · 06-13-2015, 03:43 AM

Thanks, Rob! I have seen videos of Eddie Davis playing banjo or tenor guitar, but I didn't realize that he had any educational material. It's good to know. I will look for it.

Speaking of educational material, do you have any books of videos to recommend? Thanks!

**Rob MacKillop** · 06-13-2015, 04:37 AM

I don't know of any directly related to the tenor guitar, just the tenor banjo - but obviously there are crossovers: same tuning, similar repertoire, and similar position in an ensemble. If you are up for a couple of Skype lessons, I recommend Steve Caddick in the States. Lots of people love his relaxed but knowledgeable teaching style. He also plays tenor guitar. Very nice guy. I think his email is banjopa at yahoo. If that doesn't work, just search for him online.

Mel Bay has a book on chord melody in CGDA, confusingly called Melody Chord System, but the repertoire is awful. It does, however, lay out the technique for chord melody in this tuning.

Otherwise you will be looking online for historical tutors from the 20s and 30s - there are many. I like the works by A J Weidt - early jazz with a touch of ragtime. Search YouTube for my name and his, to get an idea. Those pieces would work really well on a tenor guitar. I have tabbed-out versions of some pieces available from my website https://robmackillop.net/scores/

Have a search for McNeil's Chord System as well.

Once you've learned this tuning you will be in a much better position to play the six-string guitar music of Carl Kress, if you can find the original scores. The Masters Of The Plectrum Guitar book from Mel Bay has a few pieces by Kress, but they have all been altered to fit standard guitar tuning, including key changes. My understanding is that he used CGDA on the top four strings, but tuned the A down an octave, and added a low G and a low C below those four.

I hope some of that is of use. Otherwise, just get a chord book, and go to town on any song you like :-)

**Eddie Lang** · 06-13-2015, 04:46 PM

I will checked your recommendations, Rob. Thanks for your time.

Opinions on Mel Bay's Complete Tenor Banjo Method?

**Rob MacKillop** · 06-13-2015, 05:04 PM

Again, the repertoire will drive you nuts - Camptown Races, etc. I'd give it a miss, unless you use it just to learn to read in this tuning. It was written by Mel himself, many decades ago.

If you PM me your email address, I could send you some stuff.

**Eddie Lang** · 06-14-2015, 03:49 AM

Hi Rob. PM sent.

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

(...)
Once you've learned this tuning you will be in a much better position to play the six-string guitar music of Carl Kress, if you can find the original scores. The Masters Of The Plectrum Guitar book from Mel Bay has a few pieces by Kress, but they have all been altered to fit standard guitar tuning, including key changes. My understanding is that he used CGDA on the top four strings, but tuned the A down an octave, and added a low G and a low C below those four.

I hope some of that is of use. Otherwise, just get a chord book, and go to town on any song you like :-)

I hadn't though about this. Yes, it would be faboulous to try some of these alternate tunings performed by a giant!

Kress tuned his guitar Bb. F. C. G. D. A. and later in his career, he tuned it Bb. F. D. G. A. D. I am not sure when he made the transition. I figure he was using the first one on his early historic recordings with Eddie Lang, with Dick McDonough and with Tony Mottala, all in the 1930s, but he must have been using the later tuning by the time he was working regularly with George Barnes in the 1960s.

Another guitarist tuning similarly is Marty Grosz who tunes his guitars Bb. F. C. G. B. D. (Forum member Destinytot tunes like that too, as does guitarist Doug Maddox, who calls Bb. F. C. G. B. D. "Carl Kress tuning"). I wonder if they only play with these tunings now or of they still use E. A. D. G. B. E.?

So, I've been digging into some CGDA basics today. Maybe aiming for a few Delmore Brothers duets (one 6-sting guitar, one tenor guitar, vocal harmonies) -- good stuff too! -- before tackling swing music from the 1930-40s.

**Rob MacKillop** · 06-14-2015, 03:54 AM

That's exciting, Richard! I didn't know about Marty or Doug, or about the correct tunings for Kress. Someone needs to do the practical work on all of this. Richard - you're that man!

**Eddie Lang** · 06-14-2015, 01:22 PM

Rob, thanks again for the material!

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

That's exciting, Richard! I didn't know about Marty or Doug, or about the correct tunings for Kress. Someone needs to do the practical work on all of this. Richard - you're that man!

Ha! I will try to get a better handle on CGDA before I tackle Kress or Grosz tunings! OTOH, have a look at the videos that member Destinytot posted in various threads. He has a good thing going, playing with the Marty Grosz tuning.

**arktrav** · 06-16-2015, 09:11 PM

Hello Eddie, congratulations on your TG-50.

I, too, have a new, to me TG50 headed my way.

I plan on watching this thread so that I may learn how to learn.

I don't plan on ever being "good", but I look forward to the journey.

Thanks, I'll be lurking and learning

**Eddie Lang** · 06-16-2015, 10:16 PM

Congrats, Arktrav!

I've been having fun with mine whenever I could in the last few days. Learning the fretboard and inversions. I still have a steep curve ahead, but it's all good!

Is the one on your way a 1953 from WA?

**arktrav** · 06-17-2015, 07:48 AM

Yes, that is the one. How did you know? I should get it next week. arktrav (J.C. Bryant)

**Rob MacKillop** · 06-17-2015, 11:54 AM

Richard, thanks for introducing me to the playing and wonderful persona of Marty Grosz! I've been watching a few videos of him - great player, nice voice. Reminds me of Eddy Davis. Wonderful!

**Eddie Lang** · 06-17-2015, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by arktrav

Yes, that is the one. How did you know? I should get it next week. arktrav (J.C. Bryant)

It was on my watchlist while I was shopping for one, and I received an email saying that someone had made an offer.

It looks really good! Congrats again!

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

Richard, thanks for introducing me to the playing and wonderful persona of Marty Grosz! I've been watching a few videos of him - great player, nice voice. Reminds me of Eddy Davis. Wonderful!

Rob, glad you enjoy Marty Grosz. I've been a huge fan for years. Now in his mid eighties, he's still going strong.

Marty is also an historian when it comes to early jazz guitar, and he's written many liner notes on Carl Kress and Dick McDounouh albums, and many more. His father was famous German painter George Grosz.