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Hi, I own an Epiphone Emperor that I love to play. Everytime I take it out to play I end up having to turn it up to be heard and it starts to feedback. Sometimes even the sound of the amplified bass will shake the top and will feedback the second I let go of the strings. I've heard people say to plug up the sound holes. I've seen videos of Wes Montgomery using a hollow body guitar and he didn't seen to have trouble with feedback. I want to know what he (and others) were doing that kept the sound clean like that without the unwanted feedback.
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05-07-2009 07:06 PM
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One of the biggest helps for feedback is physically how close you are to the amp. The further away you are, the better. Obviously you can't stand in another room, but you get the idea. Another thing is to work with the eq on the amp. Rolling back the bass can be a big help. Using more amp volume and less guitar volume can also help. As far as Wes (and others), a lot of those guys used small, low power amps. Wes specifically used a tweed Fender Deluxe quite a bit. 1x12" at like 12 or 15 watts. Didn't really move enough air to cause feedback. A lot of 'those guys' use Polytones or other really flat response amps, and even though they might be quite loud, the 1x12" or smaller configuration helps because they still won't move enough air to cause as much feedback. Other things 'they' do to suppress feedback is play smaller-bodied guitars (George Benson) or have floating pickups (Johnny Smith and again George Benson).
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Thank you. This is a very helpful post, especially (as I do mostly) for those noodling at home when, often unavoidably, the amp is fairly close to the guitar. Is there a 'best' position inthe home situation? I was wondering if there is an 'eye of the storm' position - like sitting on the amp cab
Originally Posted by bkdavidson
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Thanks for the response. It is true the main amp I was talking about is a JC120. I have also played with a small fender tube amp with one small speaker, I forget the size, but it would also occasionally feedback. The thing with the Fender was that my band mates would say they couldn't hear me so I would turn it up to a reasonable volume and inevitably the guitar would start to make all sorts of unwanted noises if I wasn't completely muting the fretboard. When Wes was using say a 10 watt amp how high did he have the volume? Originally Posted by bkdavidson
All the things you stated seem to be reasonable explanations but it just doesn't seem to work in the same way for me and my Emperor. Whenever we would jam we would try to get within a rather tight little space for interaction reasons, but also to hear each other better. When we do that should I move the amp away and stay physically close? Also, have you ever had a similar problem with a similar guitar? What did you do about it?
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The fatter guitars, like my gimongous Guild 175, will definitely give you the most trouble!! That thing used to squeal, in certain weather conditions, uncontrollably to such an extent that I had to keep all the strings muted constantly when I wasn't playing and used my thumb wrapped around the back to block the low E from humming while I was playing.
So, first of all, if you can get a smaller-bodied axe, go for it.
Second, as davidson mentioned above, is to try to find the best positioning possible for practice or playing. I usually have to face completely opposite the amp speakers and as far away as possible. Other than that, you can try stuffing it with foam, as many people do.
When I can't do anything, I just have to rely on my thumb for muting the bottom and actually avoid certain notes.
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I was talking to Jonathan Kreisberg (name dropper!!
) at a gig and told him I was amazed that he could play his 175 fairly loud through a Deluxe Reverb and use a distortion box without getting howls of feedback. He just smiled and said "I'm pretty used to it; I know when it's gonna happen and I can control it now".
He certainly did that well, because I never heard any feedback at all. He reckoned it would appear around the E/Eb in the middle of the neck but he could feel it start to build up and deal with it.
One option would be to try Doug's Plugs (Doug's Plugs - hand-made f-hole covers to eliminate feedback in your archtop guitar) which are almost invisible and look better than having foam stuffed haphazardly into your f-holes (which is never much fun
).
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Originally Posted by franco6719
This guy is using what appears to be the same type of guitar and same amp I usually use and he doesn't seem to be having any problems. How far do you think he has that jc120 turned up? When I go to around 4 the feedback starts. Although we do have a bass player that loves to play too loud and a drummer and sometimes we have another guitar.
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The louder your other musicians are, the greater chances that you'll have to crank and squeal and eventually fire the loud asses so that you can keep your gigs.
Or get a tele.
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LOL Originally Posted by Stackabones
The louder your other musicians are, the greater chances that you'll have to crank and squeal and eventually fire the loud asses so that you can keep your gigs.
Or get a tele.
Sometimes I feel like the odd man out trying to tell everyone they need to be quieter. Eventually though I usually end up playing whatever guitar is around that doesn't feedback, but I love my Emperor so I really want to figure out a solution. That's why I want to know about Wes Montgomerys set up.
We are all from a rock background, I think that I am the most into jazz right now. I can really hear the rock influence in the bass and drums. I want to get better so that I can eventually start gigging as an "authentic" or more so authentic jazz group.Last edited by P90; 05-08-2009 at 02:50 PM. Reason: mispell
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1.Amp location:Behimd the neck side. Originally Posted by P90
2.Control the bass level and volume.
(You must get the good sounds for safety play.)
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Half the reason we have all these feedback problems and Wes/et al. didn't is that everybody plays too g*****n loud...if you played that way back in the day, you got fired. Period.
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Hi there,
I am the guitar player in that YouTube video.
I can tell you exactly how that rig was set up.
It is a Epiphone Joe Pass going through a JC-90. Truth is that JC did have 2 problems. 1 was a constant hum and the other was feedback. I tried unsuccessfully to get rid of that hum. I took it to several repairman and finally shipped to Roland to repair all to no avail. I eventually sold the amp and replaced it with a smaller and more powerful JazzKat.
The rig you hear in that video is as follows.
Epiphone Joe Pass
ART Tube PAC
ART Tube EQ
Roland JC 90 (turned up to about 3) out to a
Mackie Mixer
Mackie Powered speakers
The volume from the amp is low and can be adjusted through the mixer or speaker. Minor adjustments can be made on the guitar itself.
The Feedback issue can be resolved like this.
1. You need a smaller amp. In this case, size matters. JazzKat, Polytone, Fender, Roland cube (which has a JC sound). A larger amp will emit a larger cone of sound. Therefore, you and your guitar are more likely to be within the cone thereby creating that feedback.
2. Keep your amp volume low and utilize the mixer if there is one.
3. Stand farther away from the amp (I know that's obvious but it is often overlooked)
4. Use your onboard EQ or an external EQ to turn down the problem area. This means getting to the gig an adjusting your sound to fit the room. Remember it may change and room gets more or less full with bodies. I found that if I find the area on the guitar where the feedback is worst, I can lower either the treble, bass or mids on my amp to eliminate or at least reduce the feedback. That will in turn affect the volume, so it will take some tinkering.
That being said, it doesn't mean I never get feedback but I do need to remind myself of these rules from time to time.
I hope that helps.
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I've gone the Tele route. It doubles as a club if you ever need it -- don't do that with an archtop! Originally Posted by Stackabones
The louder your other musicians are, the greater chances that you'll have to crank and squeal and eventually fire the loud asses so that you can keep your gigs.
Or get a tele.
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Besides trying to distance yourself from the amp also set the amp so you body is between the amp and the guitar blocking it. You can try and dial out the frequency with amp EQ or using a graphic EQ pedal. Last is getting a set of F-Hole plugs made for your guitar.
Its all about getting enough room volume so using a smaller amp with a line out so you can send a signal to the PA is an option.
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This is a pretty old thread, but I'll jump in anyway in case anybody's still interested.
Feedback is a nature of the beast kind of thing with big hollow guitars. There are a number of ways to solve or mitigate the problem:
* Get away from the amp. This was mentioned above, and it does help, but it may not be practical if you get to where you can't hear yourself in a loud ensemble. It also may not completely solve the problem.
* Keep the stage volume low. If this works for you, great, but it may not be practical. You need to hear yourself.
* EQ the feedback out. This is possible, but I'm not a fan of this approach. I've never been able to do it without messing up the sound of the guitar. IMO, EQ should be used to get the best guitar sound, not for problem solving.
* Doug's Plugs. I don't know if he's still in business, but I've heard that they work well. Not a cheap solution though.
* Tape up the F holes. This will work and it's cheap, but it may mess up the finish on the guitar.
* Get a smaller bodied laminate guitar or a tele. It does make a difference, but it may not be practical for you.
* Fire the loud drummer. Only if you don't like how he plays. Otherwise, you're compromising the music to accommodate a technical problem where better solutions exist. Sometimes playing loud and aggressively is what the music requires. Just ask Elvin Jones.
* Put foam in the guitar. This is a cheap solution that can look good and work well if you're careful and patient. You can get large, thick blocks of foam in black or dark grey that will look good in the guitar. Patiently work them through the F holes. This takes a while, but it's doable. It'll probably take you 15-20 minutes to work those suckers in there. Pinch them through the holes a little bit at a time. You'll probably need two on each side, but the idea is that you want to wedge them between the top and the back of the guitar so they snugly block the entire F hole and don't move around. Be careful to avoid the wiring.
** This does significantly deaden the acoustic sound of the guitar, but if you always play plugged in that won't matter. It has no noticeable effect on the plugged-in sound.
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Teles are great. Trust me, I have 4 of them and I am building 2 more. However, they are different. I like to play a tele when I have a bassist. I try to recreate the feel of Ed Bickert and Don Thompson (album entitled "At the Garden Party") or Lorne Lofsky. Or if I am doing something a little more modern sounding (Mike Stern style), I love the tele.
However, if there is no bass player and I am after the sound of the greats like Kenny Burrell, Wes Montgomery, Bucky Pizzarelli or even John Pizzarelli for that matter, you can not get that from a tele. You need to use a Jazz Box of some kind.
Unless it is a very loud club (In which case there should be a mixer or pa system of some kind) you should not have to be that loud.
I am sticking with my four methods
The Feedback issue can be resolved like this.
1. You need a smaller amp. In this case, size matters. JazzKat, Polytone, Fender, Roland cube (which has a JC sound). A larger amp will emit a larger cone of sound. Therefore, you and your guitar are more likely to be within the cone thereby creating that feedback.
2. Keep your amp volume low and utilize the mixer if there is one.
3. Stand farther away from the amp (I know that's obvious but it is often overlooked)
4. Use your onboard EQ or an external EQ to turn down the problem area. This means getting to the gig an adjusting your sound to fit the room. Remember it may change and room gets more or less full with bodies. I found that if I find the area on the guitar where the feedback is worst, I can lower either the treble, bass or mids on my amp to eliminate or at least reduce the feedback. That will in turn affect the volume, so it will take some tinkering.
I always have time to talk guitar and guitar gear gear.
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My method is to stuff the guitar with Foam .....I had the box like this for a couple years Originally Posted by Doublea A
with no feedback issues and a goodish tone , but recently I've felt I maybe overdid it a bit
and I've removed half the foam so now, only the upper bouts are now stuffed
Still no feedback problems , and a slightly live-er guitar sound .... nice
PS Jim Mullen uses Dougs Plugs and sounds good with no feedback issues
on a big Aria
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It was my understanding that floating pickups increased the likelihood of feedback, not decreased it. No? Originally Posted by bkdavidson
Actually, my belief was that set-in pickups prevented the top from vibrating as much as it otherwise would (with floating pups) so had less propensity to feedback.
Yes, no?
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That's been my experience. Less top vibration, less feedback. That's why set pickups, laminated tops and controls mounted in the top inhibit feedback. Ditto semi-hollow guitars with the center block. Originally Posted by jasaco
As for the Benson guitar, I don't believe I ever played an instrument that was more feedback prone.
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Yes and yes. Originally Posted by jasaco
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The best for me to prevent feedback is to learn where the guitar feedbacks. My guitar feedbacks a lot in F -> G in the A string so I know how much I can sustain these notes.
Funny, sometimes I hit a note and has something like reversed feedback.
Does that happen to you?
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from past posting
How To Use
1.Amp location:Behimd the neck side of your standing positions on the
stage and tilt-back towards to your ears.
2.Control the amps bass and volume for safety play
(You must get the good sounds for safety play.)
also about the
Amp StandAmazon.com: AMP150 Amplifier Stand: Musical Instruments
Very useful and efective for the stage and sounds pursuit at the home.
Each players always feel the own sounds and prevent the too mutch volume and good for band sounds.
Last edited by kawa; 10-09-2013 at 09:08 PM.
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Use F-hole plugs or clingfilm!
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This feeback issue...
Obviously it's not going to go away.
I admit to be a little surprised, since feedback is not an issue for me.
I use mainly a 17" laminate with floating pickup, through an ordinary
65-watt solid state amp.
The amp is usually behind me to one side, within arm's reach if I need to
fiddle the controls.
While playing, my feedback problem is nil. I play mostly in big bands.
I've heard open mikes near the player can cause feedback, although
I've occasionally been near big PA speakers, such that the guitar was shaking
like a leaf. But no feedback.
If I knew what the secret was, I'd pass it on, but I'm mystified.
I do put styrofoam felt covered baffles between tailpiece and body,
but tell myself this couldn't be enough to prevent the problem.
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Flatwound strings preference
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