-
Some of you probably already know this, and I'm embarrassed to say that its taken me about 35 years to figure it out, but I had a revelation yesterday that I thought I'd share.
Playing an archtop at gigs, it has always bugged me that the room can have such a huge influence on tone. In particular, I've often struggled with muddiness even when using truly great equipment. Yesterday, I bought a little amp stand. I wasn't looking to try a tone experiment. Rather, I bought it because I'm fed up of always searching for chairs, crates etc at gigs. I thought that this way, I'd be more independent. Well, the stand takes the amp completely off the floor and angles it slightly towards me. It's only taking the amp a few centimeters off the floor really i.e. not one of those ones that has an adjustable height.
Voila, all muddiness disappears. Crystal clear lows. I'm able to get the same tone in several rooms too and have more control over the sound. I think it has to do with eliminating the coupling that occurs with the floor. It does take away bass response in general but the overall tone is much more pleasing and devoid of muddiness.
As I said, its embarassing because when you think about it, it should be obvious. The fact that the amp is tilted towards my ears also changes what I'm hearing. Duh, but I never realized it. Hope this helps someone else.
-
07-03-2015 10:27 AM
-
The bigger thing is that it decouples it from the floor, which can accentuate the bass / low end ... acting like a subwoofer. Hifi geeks will do the same thing with speaker risers: the little spike legs that minimize contact with the floor. If you look at pictures of the wrecking crew you will see almost all of them have their amps on folding chairs, so the solution doesn't have to be fancy.
They may have partially done that to hear themselves better as you discovered, but I imagine it was partially for EQ reasons.
Good discovery that has a cheap solution!
-
My amps all have flight cases. As soon as I get to the gig, the amp goes on top of the flight case. This decouples the amp from the "stage" (Ha! many of the places I play the "stage" is a corner of the room--about the worst place for loading up the bass frequencies, at the expense of everything else.
-
Taking the amp from the floor helps removing bass but also takes some depth out of the sound in my experience. . My solution is using a low cut pedal (or high pass). Basically the opposite of a tone guitar control, removes all frequencies bellow a certaim frequency (30hz-300hz is the range on mine, I had to go near 300hz on several rooms).
-
I like kick back legs. They improve the amp's clarity and projection. Since they are attached, it one less this to carry.
-
I'm curious about this. At our gigs which turn into jam sessions with other players coming up, we have lifted the amps off the floor so that the players hear themselves better. I have returned to the stage to find the dials ( sometimes the volume - sometimes the bass or treble - or both - turned up to 10!!!!)
But more importantly, trying out new guitars at Guitar Center, (in new Fender amps) everything sounds so fresh and lively. Is it the new speakers (floor model amps), the amps, or the guitars? The amps are usually at ear level.
-
Could be new speakers indeed, they tend to have a bit more treble, but usually people find that harsh or piercing sounding. The amps being at ear level probably is the major reason for the 'fresh' sound. Placing you ear directly in the speaker-beam does this, but you don't want to do that a gig-volumes I guess.....
Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack
-
It also depends a bit on the amp itself. My little BluesBaby 22's cabinet doesn't produce an awful lot of bass by itself, so with that amp I sometimes put it on the floor on purpose! Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
-
Agree Jay, depends on the room and guitar too... but I've found the low cut to be the better solution and it's really easy to build!
-
Interesting solution! Is there a schematic/lay out of that device available somewhere? Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
-
My tech used this one
High Pass Filter Calculator
-
[QUOTE=spiral;546557]The bigger thing is that it decouples it from the floor, which can accentuate the bass / low end ... acting like a subwoofer. Hifi geeks will do the same thing with speaker risers: the little spike legs that minimize contact with the floor. If you look at pictures of the wrecking crew you will see almost all of them have their amps on folding chairs, so the solution doesn't have to be fancy.
They may have partially done that to hear themselves better as you discovered, but I imagine it was partially for EQ reasons.
Good discovery that has a cheap solution!
Members of 'The Wrecking Crew' included:
- bass: Max Bennett, Chuck Berghofer, Jimmy Bond, Red Callender, Carol Kaye, Larry Knechtel, Joe Osborn, Bill Pitman, Ray Pohlman, Lyle Ritz
- conductor/arranger: Jack Nitzsche
- drums: John Clauder, Hal Blaine, Jim Gordon, Jim Keltner, Earl Palmer, Joe Porcaro
- guitar: Bill Aken, Doug Bartenfeld, James Burton, Glen Campbell, Al Casey, Jerry Cole, Mike Deasy, John Goldthwaite, Rene Hall, Carol Kaye, Barney Kessel, Don Peake, Bill Pitman, Ray Pohlman, Howard Roberts, Irv Rubins, Louie Shelton, Billy Strange, Tommy Tedesco, Al Vescovo, P.F. Sloan[4]
- harmonica: Tommy Morgan
- keyboards: Al De Lory, Larry Knechtel, Mike Melvoin, Don Randi, Mac Rebennack (aka Dr. John), Mike (Michel) Rubini, Leon Russell
- percussion: Frank Capp, Gary L. Coleman, Julius Wechter, Joe Porcaro
- saxophone: Gene Cipriano, Steve Douglas, Jim Horn, Plas Johnson, Jay Migliori, Nino Tempo
- trombone: Dick Nash, Richard "Slyde" Hyde, Lew McCreary
- trumpet: Bud Brisbois, Roy Caton, Chuck Findley, Ollie Mitchell, Tony Terran
- vocals: Ron Hicklin Singers often performed backup vocals on many of the same songs on which The Wrecking Crew had played instrumental tracks. Though not an official member, Sonny Bono did hang out and contribute to sessions recorded by the Crew
-
I noticed this years ago, when I put casters on my peavey classic vtx212. Just that 3" lift made gave me a lot more clarity without having to boost stage volume too much. I would imagine tipping the amp would be even better.
-
AER Tilt System - Thomann Portugal
This is a very cheap and practical amp stand. Some amps, like the Mambo, come already wedged or with tilts which is even more practical.
-
Hmm. I Would say that the problem often comes from the bas freq reflecting first from the floor because its the closest surface.
-
It was always a problem with my SCXD, and I had a really cheap Radio Shack speaker stand I used which angled it up. It doesn't seem to be a problem with the Fishman Artist at all, so I don't use it. The Artist has a sweepable filter that removes a lot of unwanted tones as well.
I just realized the Fishman has a closed back, whereas the Fender is one, not sure if this is playin a role, but we are almost always stuck in a corner with the amp against the wall, which certainly affects the sound.Last edited by Doctor Jeff; 07-04-2015 at 05:54 PM.
-
It's an old trick known the world over to audiophiles who use speaker spikes. Every high end speaker uses speaker spikes for this reason....welcome to the party!
btw, bassist Max Bennett played with the Crusaders during the mid 70's....kewl!
-
I use a custom size piece of a shock absorbing foam mat to uncouple my amp from the floor and it acomplishes the same thing as a stand.
-
Spikes Was first invented for placing speakers on american carpets so that they Would pierce the surface and stand on solid material. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
It's an old trick known the world over to audiophiles who use speaker spikes. Every high end speaker uses speaker spikes for this reason....welcome to the party!
btw, bassist Max Bennett played with the Crusaders during the mid 70's....kewl!
Spikes and Cones - What's the point?
-
Did a great gig on the weekend and had much better clarity than usual. The one I got is the K and M amp stand. Really nice.
-
Cheap? Have you seen what the "Barney Kessell signature folding chair™" list price is. Ok, the tone plastic is topnotch, but still.... Originally Posted by spiral
Good discovery that has a cheap solution!
Also, good luck trying to find a lefty one..
TedLast edited by Teddyfm; 07-06-2015 at 02:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Guitar In Jazz - Jazz Guitar Radio Documentary
Today, 06:02 PM in The Players