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I saw Fareed Haque playing a D'Angelico single cutaway. I remember seeing the brand here and there decades ago but it didn't seem to have serious visibility outside of it's "target market" crowd.
I then went hunting and surprise, I saw this semi hollow youtube video. I didn't know they made semis.
I was further surprised at the deeper sound of this semi hollow. The amp isn't shabby obviously and plays a nice part in this equation but...
I know this brand used to be quite an esteemed brand when they were made here. Have they fallen out of favor so to speak? Any one have this particular guitar? I'm curious about the line in general and especially the semis.
EX-DC Stairstep Tailpiece - D'Angelico Guitars | Evolution of a Legacy
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10-19-2015 12:14 AM
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The guitars are wonderful, bias against them runs deep due to the name on the headstock.
I think they play and sound every bit as good as anything else made anywhere.
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The guitar in the video certainly sounds nice. Love the amp!
If John D'Angelico's original master pieces were "blinged-out Gibsons", these present guitars fit the mold.
Whether or not they are imbued with the spirit that lovingly hand-crafted tools possess is perhaps debatable.
I know I wouldn't mind having a single cutaway model of any thickness, as long as it had a New Yorker-style tailpiece. And a tasty sunburst.
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They are competently Made in Korea guitars that do their job admirably well.
The D'Angelico part is just a nudge-nudge-wink-wink a little better than a Panerai, Shenzhen Speciale or Franck Muller, Mongkok Meisterstuck.
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Im not entirely convinced people went off them because they are made in Korea. I think people went off them when they were made in Japan.
They are nice sure but when you've spent $4,000 on a guitar that isn't a D'aquisto and doesn't sound anything like a D'aquisto, whats the point? Most people who bought them when they came out, sold them for a loss. This happened several times over within about a year. Many D'aquisto (vestal) are already on their 3rd owner with 2 years of the being made.
If anything the korean ones offer great value. I just dont think they look that appealing and people urr'ign on caution wont want to buy something too fancy they wont be able to sell.
I saw the whole D'aquisto thing come and go with nothgin more than a slightly raised eye brow.Last edited by Archie; 10-19-2015 at 05:51 AM.
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The original brand was one person making high-end custom instruments. After he died, the brand name (not the company/factory, since there wasn't one; just the legal right to put the name on an instrument) passed through different hands. Most of those owners have made instruments that aren't much like the instruments John D'Angelico made, especially the current owners (who actually make some high end guitars in the US, but make most of theirs in Korea).
Dislike of the brand is basically dislike of the name being put on something other than an artisan-made carved-top guitar, while using marketing language claiming a connection to John D. I don't think Korean origin is a source of much dislike -- these days, Korean guitars are well regarded.
What ATH says above is about _sellers_ going off the brand because they don't hold resale value (which is true of most Asian-made guitars). But the people who keep their guitars (e.g., me) haven't gone off them. I don't think any of us actually has enough data on sales, re-sales, and retention to say which sentiment predominates.
John
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When I was 9 years old, my 68 yr. old step-grandfather had a '68 Pontiac LeMans, 350 V-8 with a four barrel in it. I remember he took us for a drive, and when he accelerated onto the highway, we were pressed back against the front seat by the sudden acceleration. Almost like the feeling you get on a roller coaster as you... just....come up over the last rise, and then whoosh....fall down into seeming freefall.
I grew up, drove sensible cars, but always wanted that "classic muscle car". I heard sometime in the '80's that General Motors had revived it, and went to a dealer to look at one. It was a Korean econo-box that put out about 47 horsepower, and went from 0-60....eventually. I asked the dealer whether it ran on bird seed, or squirrel food.
The Korean econo-box Pontiac "LeMans" was about as close to the original, as these guitars are to the original D'Angelicos.
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I cant say any else that hasn't been said already. My personal feeling is that they are wonderful guitars. They shouldn't say D'Angelico on the headstock (in fact, that area should be left blank) and they should sell for less money than they sell for now.
I had one and it was a GREAT guitar.
JD
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I am not sure what models it is limited to, but at least some of the D'Angelico branded guitars are being built in NY by Victor Baker. I can only assume it is the higher priced models. I feel safe in that assumption.
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I played a couple recently and I thought they both played and sounded very good. That being said, the D'Angelico brand has been close to destroyed by the way it has been managed and I think it's absolutely understandable that there is little or no prestige left in the name on the current instruments. Therefore, all of the appeal has to come from the guitars themselves and that's a tougher nut to crack. The cosmetics are extreme. They have a lot of competition in their price range. And they have no real connection left with the man who gave the name its historic meaning.
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Im no expert at this, but when Jimmy bought the company from the D'Angelico family, he put his name on the headstock of all the guitars going forward. Whether that was out of respect or whatever, that was the way it should have been. He put his name on the Guitar. If he made great guitars then his name would get the notoriety. If he made crappy guitars, his name would be shunned. We all know, the latter did NOT happen.
To me, there were 1164 D'Angelico's.
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But if you buy used, you get a really good guitar for a really good price. Some of us don't give a f*ck about "prestige."
Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
John
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Wait a minute: They are wonderful guitars. Yours was a GREAT guitar. But they should sell for less. Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
I don't get it.
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That's true and there are a couple of models I would consider but there are a lot of very cool Asian made guitars that they are competing with in both the new and used market and most of them don't charge an economic premium for an assumed pedigree that has no basis in reality. Originally Posted by John A.
Last edited by Jim Soloway; 10-19-2015 at 10:59 AM.
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Spot on, Jim. I would go to Ibanez first in that price range. Eastman and Peerless also have good laminated guitars in that price range. Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
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Originally Posted by John A.
Thats not the argument we are having We are speculating on the market for them. We have all said they are good guitars :-)
Your argument is based its value to you and your perceived value against it competitors. Which of course is part of the whole deal. D'angelicos weren't really designed to have to compete, although they found themselves now doing so, pretty heavily. Hence the discussion.Last edited by Archie; 10-19-2015 at 11:11 AM.
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I bought mine used at Guitar Center for $700. I wouldn't buy one new at $1299. No way. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
Sorry I didn't make that clear.
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That premium disappears in the used market so far as I can tell, and I think most people outside of internet guitar fora (which believe it or not is a small, non-representative sample of the guitar universe) are completely oblivious to the "assumed pedigree" issue. I get a lot of "hey, that's a really nice guitar ... Dee-an? Dan? what's that? never heard of it." I paid about $800 for a guitar that's as good as anything 2x the price (or more). I've never gotten anything like "hey, pretty cheesy the way they try to pass those things off as "real" D'Angelicos (and I know a lot of rude people). Go ahead guys, keep dissing the brand -- I might want another I loves me a bargain. Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
[Hey, now that I think of it ... those Fender Deluxe Reverbs -- man they suck, I can't believe what's happened to that brand ... those things are NOTHING like the real ones that Leo made ... and so overpriced ... no one should pay more than (let's see, how much have I got on me? ... $127), yeah 127 bucks. Terrible things those Deluxe Reverbs you definitely don't want one, but I'll do you a favor and buy yours for 127 bucks.]
To the specific original question about the semi -- I have an EX DC (with the stairstep tailpiece, per the link to the D'A site; the video is a stop tailpiece). Great guitar. I agree with some of the criticisms of its appearance -- I prefer less bling, too. But it sounds and plays very well. Does everything a semi is supposed to do. I tried a lot of semis before buying, and have no regrets.
John
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I think your reaction is a bit misguided (and possibly a bit over the top). I'm pretty sure that no one in this thread said anything negative about the guitars and several of us said a lot that was positive (including me). We're talking about the branding and that is something entirely different. Given that the branding costs the manufacturer real money, it is safe to assume that if the branding didn't command a premium, they wouldn't use it. Originally Posted by John A.
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I think the model that is in the video is actually being made by Heritage for the "new" D'Angelico guys. Other than the Victor Baker hand-builts, the rest are made in Korea.
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It's not an "argument" it's an observation about the market for them, and on the cost of caring about "prestige." Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
John
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You must not ride the subways much :-) Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
Yup Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
I'm talking about the branding, too, and agreeing with you that the "prestige" value isn't holding in the used market. Which is a good thing from my perspective. I'm hoping the same effect will lead to DRRI's going for $127. Please help with this. Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
A) Not safe to assume. People do dumb stuff. B) Why assume anything about "premiums" here? Street prices on these guitars are similar to at least some competitors (e.g., Peerless, though Eastman semis are crazy cheap for the quality). Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
John
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[QUOTE=John A.;576943]
Hey, now that I think of it ... those Fender Deluxe Reverbs -- man they suck, I can't believe what's happened to that brand ... those things are NOTHING like the real ones that Leo made ... and so overpriced ... no one should pay more than (let's see, how much have I got on me? ... $127), yeah 127 bucks. Terrible things those Deluxe Reverbs you definitely don't want one, but I'll do you a favor and buy yours for 127 bucks.
But the market DOES know the difference between the original hand-wired, point to point versions of this classic amp and the reissue. Given a choice between an (i) original, newly tubed, and checked out for upgrade/maintenance/replacement on what are now 50-yr. old components, and (ii) a reissue, which do you think is going to command a better price?!
The reissue amps also have issues with PC boards cracking, etc., and the market knows this is as well....but by and large, the reissue Fender amps come close to the signature Fender sound. People continue to like the Fender sound, and I think also their circuitry is so common, that getting one worked on is not that big a deal---sorta like having a Chevy serviced instead of a Maserati.
In the end, amps are a little more utilitarian items, and don't attract collectors the way that probably the most highly sought after, ever, archtop does....so the price discrepancy is a little less extreme.
I drive a Chevy Malibu...a better than average American car...but I'm not going to go lift a Porsche hood ornament off a 911, put it on my Chevy, and drive around, thinking I'm fooling anyone. But I like my Malibu, and might buy another, and the same is true of your "D'Angelico".
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[QUOTE=goldenwave77;576969]
But the market price is not yet $127, dagnabbit. Your comment might move the needle a bit, though, so keep it up. Originally Posted by John A.
John
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Certainly in the new guitars it's very safe to assume. The D'Angelico name is being licensed. It doesn't go for free. I had enough years in the instrument business to believe that with a fair amount of certainty. As for what people are willing to pay in the used market, there are only used guitars if someone is willing to buy them new, so yes, it's relevent. Originally Posted by John A.
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