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I see a lot of different tailpiece designs for archtop guitars. A lot of changes seem to have done for appearance. Ignoring appearance, did things really improve or get much better than a basic trapeze style?
Thin Body Trapeze Tailpiece | stewmac.com
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02-16-2016 09:39 AM
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that tailpiece is fine. I have it on my barney kessel. No need to get crazy with tailpieces IMO. They don't contribute to the sound. Also, the wraparound tailpieces that many folks sell are terrible IMO.
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"that tailpiece is fine" I agree. As a general note, the heavier cast pieces can function as a counterweight if necessary (light body - heavy maple neck) but this simple part is totally fine.
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Thinking of ordering a black one. I see these guys have black. Not familiar with the company.
Guitar Parts Factory - Guitar Tailpieces
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Do you need a new tailpiece, or are you just looking for cosmetic upgrades?
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I must admit that I have only ever changed tailpieces a couple of times but I would dispute that they don't contribute to the sound. On my violin I swapped a wooden tailpiece for a metal Thomastik one and the difference in tone was very noticeable. I don't see why the same principle shouldn't apply to wood versus metal on archtop tailpieces although I expect any difference is more apparent acoustically than when amplified. I recently swapped a pot metal tailpiece for a solid brass one on my 165 and was immediately aware of a difference although again I would say this was less obvious when amplified. Only my opinion, I'm not going to swap it back to see if I was imagining this!
Originally Posted by jzucker
Last edited by stoneground; 02-16-2016 at 12:43 PM. Reason: typo
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
At this point, I am looking for something very minimal in appearance that functions well at reasonable cost.
With the basic trapeze I am thinking you do not have to worry about angle to bridge. You can also fine tune the lateral position using the two nuts. I am thinking it would not be hard to clamp something decorative to it after the fact if you wanted to experiment with weight after.
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These are very commonly used tailpieces so if You dig the appearance I believe they work just fine.
I am with stoneground in that the tailpiece HAS got an effect to the tone and sound. I changed the zigzag tp of my ES175 to a cheap (chinese) trapezoid tp and the sound was immediately firmer somehow. Maybe stronger, more even.
This result was a surprise, I did not expect anything to happen. Their weights are about the same so I figure it is the overall construction which caused the change.
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Changing a TP might change the break angle to the bridge as the strings can get anchored higher or lower depending on the TP model and at what height it is screwed from the rim edge. The cheap Chinese L7 Trapeze TP I bought for my Regent and JP was set so the edge of the hinge is just clearing the guitar rim when on my Tal and some 175 I have seen it is set a bit higher. The TP length might also change the length of the strings as some are angled, some straight, some are shorter, some longer, most obvious when swapping out a frequensator...
I am also under the impression it could affect the tone but probably more the feel or the weight.
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TP can have an effect. Like Vinlander says, break angle/pressure.
Also, the weight. If you put a big heavy metal tailpiece, there will be a noticeable effect vs a very lightweight wood piece - if nothing else than mass.
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I now have the simple trapeze black enamel tailpiece here. I think it's going to look OK, however I did find myself wondering if the a gold or silver would have been better from a string grounding point of view. Looks like paint will have be scraped away at several locations.
Danielle
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I installed TP's on two gits, both times to remove the HATED Bigsby :-)
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For me, you cant go wrong with any metal tp, it's the wooden ones I wouldn't touch.
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I suspect you mean ALL wood? Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
I have a bunch of wood over metal TP's. No problems with breakage like all wood or wood rattle on the metal. YMMV
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I'm so confused....
I changed from metal to wood on a couple of guitars due to the irritating (imo) reverb like effect I was experiencing on a couple of guitars.
Reminded me of a gizmo I foolishly bought back in the eighties!
Googled, trying to find it... Now I see someone else is marketing the same idea.
https://www.aspri.com/
NOT an endorsement...
Tried weaving various materials in to the strings behind the bridge... leather, felt, spandex...
Looked kinda dumb, to me.
Sold the guitars.
Since then, I've had a couple of guitars that had a wood/metal combo (appearing every Saturday) tailpiece, that sounded great, without the pseudo-reverb!
Then one did... ???
Currently, I'm using one cheapie (Hagstrom HJ500) with a heavy duty metal tailpiece,
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and one, my favorite, with a combo... (don't forget, tip your waitress, try the veal), wood/metal.
Neither suffer from this issue??
Other than that, I don't hear a difference.
Maybe it's the wine???
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Ha, maybe, I'm not sure, I didn't know there was wood over metal ones... My bad! I just oppose to them aesthetically first, and vulnerable to breakage second. But I guess the second one doesn't count if there's metal also. Originally Posted by GNAPPI
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I like the simple trapeze TP in the OP. It doesn't emit sympathetic ringing sounds like many more elaborate brass TPs do. It just quietly (literally) does its job year after year. I have one one an old Gibson L37 which so far has been there for 72 years.
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I had the simple black trapeze tailpiece installed yesterday. We did not have to remove any of the black finish. My luthier tested it with an ohm meter. The black finish is conductive.
It replaced a bent metal bracket - ebony tailpiece. It seems to reduce some of the lower end warmth where I am having a resonance issue. The new tailpiece seems to be helping to a degree. The luthier drilled new holes in the tailpiece so that I would have the option of putting the old back one back on without having visible holes in the guitar.
I am thinking of a fret level next. I think there may be enough wear on the offending notes to cause intonation issues drawing my attention to them.
Danielle
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I had my guitar out last night with the trapeze tailpiece installed. I had the old tailpiece in my case and showed it to her. She did some tap tests holding close to her ear and concluded that the adhesive between the metal and the ebony had failed. That seemed to support what I had found earlier.
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I am finding the guitar has a significant resonant peak frequency. From experimentation it seems that I can easily shift the frequency by adding small amount of weight to the tailpiece / or changing it's location.
Trying to think of something that easy to install adjust without special tools that would look OK.
Not sure what the best target frequency would be for that resonance. Seems I don't want it at an open string frequency or right on any note.
Danielle
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My L4-CES has a very "ring-y" tailpiece (the L5-type). A black sock...wadded up and stuffed underneath it got rid of the sympathetic vibarations. RE: sympathetic vibration, I think if the tailpiece is either very light or very heavy, it is less of a problem. The "Goldilocks" approach, i.e. "not too big, not too small" just doesn't work very well here.
You might also try a twist tie threaded through the strings on the tailpiece...weave it through the strings, and tighten slightly....cheap, light, easily replaced, and almost impossible to see.
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The tailpiece can have an influence on the acoustic performance of an archtop guitar, without a doubt. But once you plug in to an amp the effect is less important. I think that the lighter is better rule is also true for tailpieces, my preference being naked ebony anchored by a flexible steel cable to the endpin. You don't want the tailpiece to be adding anything to the sound and it seems like the wood helps to dampen vibrations.
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FYI, I have the original metal - ebony tailpiece back on the guitar. The adhesive in the tailpiece had broken down resulting in vibration in the tailpiece. A luthier today used an ultrathin adhesive that wicked right into the tailpiece at the join between the metal and ebony. Now that it's fixed I think I like the original tailpiece better.
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dOM- "The luthier drilled new holes in the tailpiece so that I would have the option of putting the old back one back on without having visible holes in the guitar."
smart move!!..especially as it turned out
cheers
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