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Hi all.
I'm looking at Fender's line of amps, specifically the smaller combo amps with 1-10" or 1-12". Don't need a lot of power, 15 tube watts should work. Good clean tones are top priority.
I played through the Super Champ X2 when I bought my Tele. I only used the clean channel and kept the settings the same each time I tried a different guitar.
Overall, it seemed like a decent amp, though I'm not sure about the mod channel being very useful to me.
I've heard this model used by a local jazzer and thought it sounded pretty good live, with a drummer, bass and vibes, playing about as loud as I'd care to play.
I'm just a little confused with all the Fender amp models and reissue series!
Any thoughts or suggestions would be very much appreciated. I'm trying to stay at $1100 or less.
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02-18-2016 07:16 PM
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i recommend finding a fender shop and put a champxd, princeton, deluxe, blues jnr, hot rod next to each other. I expect you will walk out with the princeton if you go on tone and size. I was going to go a champ after deciding deluxe (excellent sound) to big and heavy, on its own was really good then i plugged in to the princeton, it is in a different league.
the 68s (princeton and deluxe) are not as bright and break up earlier, designed for rock. may sound good in a shop but remember your sound must punch through the mix in a band setting the 65's will punch through and be clearer as the volume increases, especially with neck humbucker (hot rod ok sound but will fart at volume does not handle neck humbucker very well).
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For some reason there's never any love for the Fender Supersonic. It meets your criteria and is based on a Deluxe but is far more versatile. May not be your thing if all you want is a clean tone.
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Originally Posted by gspirro1
The sound of a Fender Princeton 68 reissue.....which sounds VASTLY different to a 65 Princeton Reissue. The 68 has the Bassman tone stack and the 65 does not. In my experience the 68 is louder and does not break up as early.....but it could have been that the 65 I tried wasn't biased correctly. The 68 is made in Mexico the 65 is made in USA.
It's totally subjective but IMO the 68 sounds much nicer for old style Jazz if using a traditional jazz box. If you want a different tone then you will have to try the different versions. Good luck.
Last edited by Philco; 02-19-2016 at 05:08 AM. Reason: Incorrect info
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i prefer the tone of the princeton 68 as well...very lush...
can't go wrong with a princeton reverb tho..great amps...and a speaker change can get you anywhere you want to go, if you need a little extra
cheersLast edited by neatomic; 02-19-2016 at 05:10 PM. Reason: correction
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Sounds like I should check out a 68 again. Have you used it live in a band?
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Nice clip.. she has some fantastic chops, too!! Dang!
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Originally Posted by gggomez
Never used it on a gig. I use it in my studio only. I prefer it to my Polytone Mini Brute and as far as an old school bebop tone is concerned it is a vast improvement on my Deluxe Reverb Re issue which was a beautiful amp but totally wrong for what I wanted to hear. I changed out speakers....tried removing the tone cap......it was just too strong in the upper mids.....too nasal sounding.
It's a been a journey for me....learning about the different flavours of Fender.
I will not part with my PR 68. It has the sound I want to hear. Just plug in and it's there. That NEVER happened with the DRRI.
Sound on gigs is a whole different story though so I can't comment on that.
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Blues Jr.
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Thanks everyone. It's going to be interesting and a challenge to find a few of these models in one place to do a meaningful comparison. But the info on the 65 and 68 Princeton is great.
I had a Blues Jr. several years ago and thought it was rather harsh and too bright sounding, maybe the newer ones are a little warmer?
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Gspirro, do you have to buy new? If you're open to getting used amps, there are always used Fender PRRIs and 68 Custom PRs to be found.
With an $1100 budget you can get used turret-boarded hardwired clones such as the Vintage Sound Amp 15, Gries 12, Headstrong L'il King, Allen Sweet Spot, Carr Sportsman, Morgan PR12, etc.. May take a bit of looking for the perfect deal.
Are you living in NA or EU? If you're in the EU you may consider getting a TAD kit and having someone wire it up for you if you're not handy with a soldering iron.
I'm really getting into the cathode-biased PR. Leo Fender got it right when he stuffed the box with a 10". I heard a PRRI with an Eminence Legend 1028K recently and it sounded so right.
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Interesting/makes me feel gooey inside, I loaded mine with the Eminence Legend 1028K also.
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Any love for the George Benson Hot Rod Deluxe? I think a new one slides in under the OP' budget limit.
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I'm in the U.S. I haven't had much luck over the years used electronics. Also, other than the Carr amps, I'm not familiar with any of those others you mention. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
I am at a point in my life (64) where I'm willing to just get in the tonal ballpark, not expecting to hit the homerun, if you know what I mean.
But it wouldn't hurt to keep my ears open, so thanks for the suggestions!
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Oh yeah! I just saw a video with GB and that amp...forgot about those. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
Lots to consider, this could be fun!
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gspirro1,
It is fun to consume all the advertising, enjoy all the hype and daydream.
Go forth & play into many amps & (I hope you) "get lucky."
My assertion is that only trial & error will allow you to discover an amp
that REALLY marries up to your favorite guitar. You've got the resources
to buy a good amp, do you have the time for a hunt?
I found a magic amp for my archtops by keeping an eye open with an
added dose of good fortune. I'm sure there are plenty of modern possibilities but
mine is an old Fender and she produces the Loveliest Trebles.
Sacrifices had to be made but I remain surprised & delighted.
Homeruns are within reach!
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Originally Posted by neatomic
Just to set this straight: both the 68 Custom and the 65 Reissue Princeton have the tube feet in the chassis, not on the circuit board:
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Yes you are correct.....I think I got that from my repair place.....not sure....anyway I cannot find any reference to that. Originally Posted by Little Jay
Just to set this straight: both the 68 Custom and the 65 Reissue Princeton have the tube feet in the chassis, not on the circuit board:
I will correct my earlier post.
Here is an interesting description of the 68.......
The ‘68 Custom series is made in Mexico (the ‘65 reissues are USA–made), but I can see nothing in the build quality that makes this one in any way the worse for it. The baffle is period–correct, in that it is screwed in via battens rather than being an integral part of the cabinet, as in later ‘70s versions. Top–notch Schumacher transformers are used, with three Groove Tubes 12AX7s, a 12AT7 reverb driver and a 6V6 output pair. The rectifier is the period–correct 5AR4 (later models use 5U4). I tried substituting some of my collection of premium NOS Mullards and Brimars, and could make no obvious immediate improvement in performance or noise, so either I got very lucky or the ‘68 Custom tubes get good quality control.
The amp as a whole exhibits commendably low noise, both electronic, in the form of hiss and hum, and mechanical, in the shape of sundry rattles and buzzes that often plague small combos. There’s no permanent ‘bright’ capacitor to disable here as Princetons never had them (although that’s another ‘mod’ that has been done for you in the ‘68 Custom Deluxe), so I tended to operate with treble around seven and bass at three for single coils, and eight and two, respectively, for humbuckers. Subtle break–up kicks in around four or five on the volume control, with ever more distortion and power–supply ‘sag’ compression available the higher you go. The pleasant surprise to me is what’s happening below the point of break–up, where this Princeton exhibits warmth and touch-sensitivity in abundance, which is particularly nice for recording in a volume–limited environment. I had wondered whether optimising the amp for louder, more overdriven use might have compromised its other attributes, but on this evidence I certainly wouldn’t say it has. There is a lot of bass anywhere above four on the dial — probably too much for anyone but Jim Campilongo — but there is always enough range to dial it out, and it certainly gives authority to single-note lines played on a bridge single–coil!
The long–tank spring reverb does everything that you’d expect of a Fender amp reverb, including offering the usual excess anywhere above about three on the dial. The bias–operated tremolo is also nice — rather than interrupting the signal with a variable resistor at the preamp stage, as a Fender opto–coupler trem does, the Princeton type actually modulates the bias of the output valves. This still achieves cyclic amplitude modulation, but the signal’s rhythmic comings and goings are somehow more subtle and interesting.
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Gspirro, Amplifiers 12W PR copy is $1299.00. $199 over your budget of $1100 but worth it, in my opinion. David Gries is a good builder. Talk to him and tell him what you want.
(Other than the Bassman tonestack, the 68 Custom PR has lower negative feedback than the 65 PRRI; that's just a change of negative feedback resistor value. The circuit is the same. And it's MIMexico which accounts for its lower price. Those meant for export have the bias-operated tremolo to comply with stricter CE RoHS requirements, I think.)Last edited by Jabberwocky; 02-19-2016 at 05:20 AM.
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I've never been able to get into the sound of the Blues Jr.
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It sounds really good with the Charlie Christian blade pickup driving it, if you like that slightly distorted hair-on-the-notes tone. I am convinced by this French player: Originally Posted by abelljo
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I like the Blues Jr. Definitely better with single coil pickups, though. Seems humbuckers always want to push it a little too much. It definitely excels at that "just breaking up a bit" tone, but it might be a little brighter than some jazzers are looking for.
I sold mine after I bought my Princeton, but in hindsight, I should have hung on to it.
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For me the Jr simply lacks dimension. Is not so much because of the break up. I also like the bass response from the 6v6 6l6 tube family. EL84s can be too bright and missing tight bass. For rock the EL84 can work especially in the Vox amps. For a small Fender I'd go with the Prineton or a Deluxe. Or a Tweed amp like Super with2 10"s
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
If I remember correctly, you have a Princeton (no reverb). Would you say you prefer it over a Princeton Reverb for jazz? I know some folks like the extra gain/extra volume in the PR.
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Great info!
I should clarify that I'm using a Henriksen Bud for my archtops and I'm real happy with that amp.
The Telecaster is a little less satisfying thru that amp, hence the search! It would be nice if the Fender/tube amp worked well with both, and I'm sure there's one out there!
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