Rubber Grommet Bushing for Gibson Toggles

[abelljo]

To make it more accurate with a mid 60s switch set up I took a rhythm treble washer from a LP, hooked it up to a dremmel and turned using a fret file to reduce it's size. The rubber material is not exactly the same as what Gibson use, this one looks more porous, but it can be sealed with tung oil.

[bebopblues]

Greetings all,

Has anyone found a source for replacement rubber grommets for the pick selector switch on an L-5? I read through an old thread here where other folks were looking, too.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

Cheers

[gggguitar]

Ok, stupid question coming here so forgive me. I've never seen a rubber grommet on a toggle switch before.

What problem does this solve? Why do they need them? Should or could all guitars have this, or just some particular ones?

School me please.

Thank you.

[gitman]

There are no stupid questions - stupid answers, yes ....
I'll answer it anyway :
The rubber grommet is meant to dampen the mechanical switching action so that it is not transferred to the guitar's top and to the pickups.
On a few older 60's ES-175 guitars it's been used, most are without. Before ca. 1960 the Byrdland, L-5 CES and Super-400 CES guitars had the switch mounted directly into the top. Someone then thought it might be a good idea and it has survived with these models, un-questioned. The problem now is that the old grommets sometimes start to crumble and some also bleed into the surrounding wood - not so good. I leave mine well alone - it's 60 years old now and any attempt at removing it will surely end in it's final destruction .... IMHO there was never a real need for it in the first place.

[gggguitar]

There are no stupid questions - stupid answers, yes ....
I'll answer it anyway :
The rubber grommet is meant to dampen the mechanical switching action so that it is not transferred to the guitar's top and to the pickups.
On a few older 60's ES-175 guitars it's been used, most are without. Before ca. 1960 the Byrdland, L-5 CES and Super-400 CES guitars had the switch mounted directly into the top. Someone then thought it might be a good idea and it has survived with these models, un-questioned. The problem now is that the old grommets sometimes start to crumble and some also bleed into the surrounding wood - not so good. I leave mine well alone - it's 60 years old now and any attempt at removing it will surely end in it's final destruction .... IMHO there was never a real need for it in the first place.

Thank you for explaining that to me.

Interesting! It makes sense on a certain level but, are people really hitting the pickup selector so hard? If that's a problem then maybe the solution is to use a different switch design. Something like you see on a Fender Jaguar perhaps rather than that big Switchcraft fulcrum that tends to electrically pop when you change pickups unless it's kept meticulously clean. I'd think that would be a bigger issue. Oh well, they did it for a reason so what do I know.

Anyway, I do really appreciate learning a bit more about guitar history and design.

Thanks again.

[wintermoon]

If you're on a gig in the moment/time you're not going to gently/slowly hit the selector.
It's more work/cost to install a rubber grommet-there's a reason Gibson started using them. Now you might not notice the click on a gig but you will in the studio.

[gitman]

If you're on a gig in the moment/time you're not going to gently/slowly hit the selector.
It's more work/cost to install a rubber grommet-there's a reason Gibson started using them. Now you might not notice the click on a gig but you will in the studio.

... IF you record your electric archtop with a mic in front .....
It might have been normal practice for players 50/60 years ago to switch pickups in the middle of a tune but in the 35+ years that I've used two-pickup archtops I've never once
used anything but the neck pickup EXCEPT when playing my Ibanez GB10 - the in-between setting yielded some useful comping sounds off and on. YMMV ....

[wintermoon]

yep, for comping. I frequently switch to both pu's to avoid boominess.

[Woody Sound]

JMOO, I didn't like the rubber grommet on my 275. Felt sloppy and loose. Never had one before , so I don't know if they all feel that way or not.

[sgosnell]

Tal used the bridge pickup for harmonics, and installed a third pickup for other reasons, and switched as necessary. I don't use harmonics much, so I don't bother with the bridge pickup on the few I have with them, but for accomplished players (not me) it can be useful.

[Slotunes]

Hell, I own a Epiphone Broadway elitist and I want to upgrade the wiring harness, switch and pots.My question is how does one remove the rubber grommet and switch.Mine has recessed nut with 2 slots.I have no way how to remove as you have to approach it from the top down.Can I remove the entire grommet and then screw the switch out by hand?Im sure theres a tech on here who knows exactly what tools I need.Any advice appreciated

[RyanM]

Following up because I'd like to know as well

[Sion]

[Dave24309]

Here's a video from twoodfrd that talks a lot about the grommet/switch on a 275 he's repairing.

It may provide some insight for those interested....

[jazzshrink]

+ 3 more pics

I'm confused. Sion, is this something you made/purchased? Is it a suitable replacement for what the OP is seeking?
Oh, and

[garybaldy]

Here's a video from twoodfrd that talks a lot about the grommet/switch on a 275 he's repairing.

It may provide some insight for those interested....

Interesting video but I don't think the strap button should be that high up. It creates a bad angle when wearing the guitar. Also the block, although having to be narrow, should have been longer to spread the stress.

[sgosnell]

The location of the button depends a lot on the strap. I've been known to modify straps to work with already installed buttons. I do like them lower.

I don't agree that the block needs to be longer. The rim is strong enough to hold with almost any length of block. The block just needs to hold the screw.

[garybaldy]

I don't agree that the block needs to be longer. The rim is strong enough to hold with almost any length of block. The block just needs to hold the screw.

The luthier says himself that the side is only 3mm thick and the block needs enough gluing surface over a wider area for support (which isn't quite just "to hold the screw").
I think the block should have been larger. One of our opinions is right and the other's is wrong! Who knows?
He talks of it posing a challenge. I think he must be referring to the practical aspect as opposed to the mechanics. So for all the effort required to carry out the task, making the block at least twice as big would have been worth it. That's what I would have asked for had I been the customer.

[palindrome]

Rubber Grommet Bushing for Gibson Toggles

What a title for a concept album!

[sgosnell]

If you watched the video, you would see that even that small piece required shaping to fit properly into the rim. Making it longer would require much more work to fit it to the curve, and would not, IMO, increase the strength. It fits into the narrow space between the kerfings, and only has to hold the screw. Making it longer would be four times the trouble for negligible return in strength. I've done a few of these, and I believe that there is little to no downside to making them shorter. A inch is more than long enough. But if you want to insist on a longer piece for your guitar, it's your money.

[garybaldy]

If you watched the video, you would see that even that small piece required shaping to fit properly into the rim. Making it longer would require much more work to fit it to the curve, and would not, IMO, increase the strength. It fits into the narrow space between the kerfings, and only has to hold the screw. Making it longer would be four times the trouble for negligible return in strength. I've done a few of these, and I believe that there is little to no downside to making them shorter. A inch is more than long enough. But if you want to insist on a longer piece for your guitar, it's your money.

I'm assuming this is in my response to my post.
I did watch the video and made references to what the guy was saying in my post.
There was no need to explain to me that it's my money. There is no need for that attempt at condescension. We can all be courteous to each other. I would be happy to pay for the additional work. But I wouldn't pay for the button to be positioned so high up on the rim.