Solid state amps that are lightweight and can do fusion as well as jazz tones?

**jzucker** · 03-30-2016, 09:37 PM

Don't like the jazz tones of the quilter, don't like the fusion tones of the evans or mambo although the mambo does sound good through an open back cab.

Anything else out there?

[edit]

KEMPER, KEMPER, KEMPER...That is the solution. They seem to be going for high $1300's now. I already have the powered cabs so the kemper and the powered cab is amazing. Head and shoulders better than any SS jazz amp because you can not only get polytone and evans type sounds but you can get any old vintage fender style amp as well.

So for a total investment of about $1500, you can have a 1000w amp that smokes quilter, evans, and the like...

**RonD** · 03-30-2016, 09:49 PM

Jack, once again, I agree.
I couldn't get a jazz tone that I like on the Quilter.
I asked for help, from Pat Quilter and the Facebook Quilter tone group... nuthin.
I using a little Fender Super Champ x2 in my teaching room. Great jazz, fusion, rock, metal, country, blues... as long as I stay in the 6'x6' room... no way this would be gig worthy!
Kinda glad, sorta, that I can't gig anymore.

**jads57** · 03-30-2016, 10:07 PM

Well I politely disagree w/ both of you guys! Incredibly happy w/ both my Aviator 1x12" Combo and my 101 mini head into a JBL k120 small Egnater cab. I don't think you guys gave it enough of a chance, and mabe tried different speakers. I play all of the following guitars through them on live gigs with no issues at all. Plenty of clean headroom. Not sure what other amps are as versatile. Perhaps an Axe Fx direct into a powered cab?

1.)Gibson '63 Historic ES-335TDC
2.)Gibson ES-339 Studio
3.)Benedetto Bambino Std w/ Roland Midi Synth
4.) Elferink Tonemaster Archtop w/ Kent Armstrong Floater
5.) Martin OM 21 Special w/ Fishman p/up
5.) Parker Fly Classic

**jzucker** · 03-30-2016, 10:18 PM

You may be incredibly happy but not only did I own one but I spent today listening to almost a dozen clips and to me it just sounds harsh and nasally for jazz. I don't like the sound at all. It doesn't get that sweet, velvety fendery wes or benson tone and it doesn't get that dark and smokey joe pass tone and it doesn't get that high-fi jimmy bruno or pat martino tone. It just gets a nasally , middy clean tone. I'll say it again but it sounds great with a strat. I think they eq'd it with a strat or tele in mind. Sounds very good for classic rock tones.

I tried it through a bunch of great speakers including an EV. I owned it for a couple months so I gave it plenty of chances. The mambo blows it away for a jazz tone. It sounds better for fusion than the mambo 1x10 due to the cabinet size but I couldn't deal with that clean tone.

I already have an axefx so I'm not looking for that. I'm looking for a 1x12 SS amp. Peavey Bandit would be great it it wasn't so heavy.

Originally Posted by jads57

Well I politely disagree w/ both of you guys! Incredibly happy w/ both my Aviator 1x12" Combo and my 101 mini head into a JBL k120 small Egnater cab. I don't think you guys gave it enough of a chance, and mabe tried different speakers. I play all of the following guitars through them on live gigs with no issues at all. Plenty of clean headroom. Not sure what other amps are as versatile. Perhaps an Axe Fx direct into a powered cab?

1.)Gibson '63 Historic ES-335TDC
2.)Gibson ES-339 Studio
3.)Benedetto Bambino Std w/ Roland Midi Synth
4.) Elferink Tonemaster Archtop w/ Kent Armstrong Floater
5.) Martin OM 21 Special w/ Fishman p/up
5.) Parker Fly Classic

**RonD** · 03-30-2016, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by jads57

Well I politely disagree w/ both of you guys! Incredibly happy w/ both my Aviator 1x12" Combo and my 101 mini head into a JBL k120 small Egnater cab. I don't think you guys gave it enough of a chance, and mabe tried different speakers. I play all of the following guitars through them on live gigs with no issues at all. Plenty of clean headroom. Not sure what other amps are as versatile. Perhaps an Axe Fx direct into a powered cab?

1.)Gibson '63 Historic ES-335TDC
2.)Gibson ES-339 Studio
3.)Benedetto Bambino Std w/ Roland Midi Synth
4.) Elferink Tonemaster Archtop w/ Kent Armstrong Floater
5.) Martin OM 21 Special w/ Fishman p/up
5.) Parker Fly Classic

I hate quoting myself, but "I couldn't get a jazz tone that I like on the Quilter."
If I have to work as hard as you suggest... no!
I can plug in to a number of amps, turn a few knobs and be very happy, in seconds.
As I mentioned, even Pat wasn't to interested in helping.
Glad you like yours.

**abelljo** · 03-30-2016, 10:40 PM

That's why I gave up on SS amps. I'm not sure there's one that can do it all. But, has anyone tried the new Blues Cube? It's supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced break. Eric Johnson, Chuck Loeb among others are endorsing it.

**abelljo** · 03-30-2016, 10:47 PM

**Woody Sound** · 03-30-2016, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

Don't like the jazz tones of the quilter, don't like the fusion tones of the evans or mambo although the mambo does sound good through an open back cab.

Anything else out there?

Re the Quilter, are you referring to the combo cab, or the stand-alone head through a different cab?

**vintagelove** · 03-30-2016, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

Don't like the jazz tones of the quilter, don't like the fusion tones of the evans or mambo although the mambo does sound good through an open back cab.

Anything else out there?

Hello,

Ever used an old tube driver? It has to be a real one with an AC power cable. It's about the only pedal distortion I can listen to. Last week I was going through some stuff to trade toward a broken ceriatone at my local GC (BTW thanks for all the work/info you posted on the ods). Anyway I had a Wampler Paisley Drive, I really didn't want to let it go, because its actually a pretty decent pedal. Anyway, plugged in the old 64 super reverb with the tube driver. Amazing, played it for a while. Plugged in the wampler, ONE NOTE and I was like "yup that's gone". The TD was SOOOOOOOOOO much more realistic in it's OD than the wampler.

Now, you tend to like a bit brighter of a sound than I do, and thats important, because the real tube drivers have an odd thing going on. You kinda have to have the treble on zero on the pedal to hear its magic. After 2, it's not to my taste anymore. YMMV, but there is something in that circuit that changes the character as the treble rises.

Anyway, that darkness might help tame the highs on those amps, and it will most definitely increase the body of the notes. If you can try one out, its a classic for a reason.

As far as SS amp distortion goes, I've yet to meet one I like. Even worse, in my "old" age, my threshold for pleasing distortion is way too high. I've come to almost not like it 75% of the time.

BTW, got the ceriatone for a single used studio monitor (an old spare), a rack mount mackie mixer, and three guitar pedals. The manager knew, that I knew, that he knew, he was sh@t out of luck on that deal. They have no repair man, no way to service it, they were already too deep in the red on the amp, and I've literally been brought up from birth in guitar stores. His exact words were "Ugh, you beat me down on that man".... Then he thanked me as I left...

Thanks again for all the ceriatone tweaks.

Best,

P.S. I know you're into Eric Johnson. It is most absolutely part of his smooth sound. There is a certain compression in that pedal that you will recognize the second you plug it in.

**stevehollx** · 03-30-2016, 11:21 PM

I know you said that you already have an AxeFx, but what about a Ax8 (or even an atomic amplifire) into a Atomic CLR? Light powered cab, and tones you're familiar with from the Axefx, and could be carried in one single trip, perhaps even one trip with guitar in hand too if you use a shoulder laptop bag for the Ax8 or go the amplifire route.

Otherwise, Roland Cube 60?

**Headshot** · 03-30-2016, 11:32 PM

I keep suggesting the new series Fender Rumble 100W bass amp...20lbs with a 12" speaker. I get all the cleans I want, plus all the overdriven fusion sounds, and everything in between...just add a reverb pedal and you are done.

**yebdox** · 03-31-2016, 12:09 AM

I've had decent luck with a ZT Club (now discontinued) but only by running straight into the effects loop. The tone stack is a little weird, by itself. 200 watts, pretty loud, good headroom. Running a Zoom G3 into the effects loop yields some pretty decent sounding tone, but I'd still rather play a decent 40 watt tube head with semi open back cab, so it sits pretty well unused.

**jzucker** · 03-31-2016, 07:15 AM

thanks for all the suggestions. vintagelove, I have tried the butler device but never was able to get anything that sounded smooth out of it. I heard EJ's version was modified for high voltage. The 12ax7 on this is running at about 10% of the normal plate voltage from what I remember.

Regarding some of the other suggestions, I have an AX8 and an Alto TS110A so i'm covered for that area but I want something that is a one-hander combo to use for teaching and traveling. Not interested in a head and cab solution. And besides , the CLR is 45lbs for the regular version and 33 for the neo version. Not exactly light.

I have tried some of the fender bass amps and they sound boxy and nasally to me, especially trying to get clean fender strat or funk/fusion rhythm tones.

Until quilter gets a jazz player to spend some R&D time with their setup or comes up with a preset that eliminates the mid range hump and adds a fender style treble control, it'll never work for me.

This looks promising but I don't want to deal with head and cab.

Demeter creates the Mighty Minnie pedal board amp

And I won't buy another roland guitar product. Too many bad experiences with their guitar products. They have their heads up their @sses regarding guitar gear as far as I'm concerned.

**vintagelove** · 03-31-2016, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

thanks for all the suggestions. vintagelove, I have tried the butler device but never was able to get anything that sounded smooth out of it. I heard EJ's version was modified for high voltage. The 12ax7 on this is running at about 10% of the normal plate voltage from what I remember.

Regarding some of the other suggestions, I have an AX8 and an Alto TS110A so i'm covered for that area but I want something that is a one-hander combo to use for teaching and traveling. Not interested in a head and cab solution. And besides , the CLR is 45lbs for the regular version and 33 for the neo version. Not exactly light.

I have tried some of the fender bass amps and they sound boxy and nasally to me, especially trying to get clean fender strat or funk/fusion rhythm tones.

Until quilter gets a jazz player to spend some R&D time with their setup or comes up with a preset that eliminates the mid range hump and adds a fender style treble control, it'll never work for me.

This looks promising but I don't want to deal with head and cab.

Demeter creates the Mighty Minnie pedal board amp

And I won't buy another roland guitar product. Too many bad experiences with their guitar products. They have their heads up their @sses regarding guitar gear as far as I'm concerned.

His wasn't special in the sense of being custom. The problem is there are SEVERAL variations, you have to get one the runs on ac power and has 4 knobs. I believe EJ uses the most modern version which has a 5th bias control, these are currently available from the original designer. To save the headache, might as well get one directly from him nowadays. I was lucky to pick mine up from a guy who was clueless.

But if you can find it all in one package that's obviously a plus.

best wishes,

ps the Demeter looks pretty cool. There was another thing I thought of, amp 1?

edit, it is the amp 1, but from the couple clips I heard, I'm not sure fusion is its strong point. And in ten years good luck repairing it.

**jzucker** · 03-31-2016, 09:10 AM

The one I had was AC powered and 4 knobs. It sounded ok but just wasn't very smooth sounding. I have found that to get the EJ tone, you really need to have a marshall amp turned up really loud. Then you can put an overdrive like the tube driver in front of it set for just the slightest amount of gain. When I used the tube driver in front of a SS amp, i thought it sounded too gritty. I do love EJ but I'm not crazy about his tone in the context of the kind of stuff I play.

I still love Tim Miller's sound the best of all the modern players. He has a bit of holdsworth tone to his playing but it's less "rock"ish and more smooth. Wish I could figure out how to get that out of the axefx. He was using a pod for most of his recordings.

Amp 1 does look cool but yeah, you're right. High tech device with all surface mounted components from a minor player in the industry doesn't bode well for long term but I'd love to try one. I wish a big player in the industry would make a version. Fuchs makes a great SS/Tube hybrid combo but it's $3k. I'd buy one if I were intending to gig with it but it's too much to use for the purpose I need it for.

Originally Posted by vintagelove

His wasn't special in the sense of being custom. The problem is there are SEVERAL variations, you have to get one the runs on ac power and has 4 knobs. I believe EJ uses the most modern version which has a 5th bias control, these are currently available from the original designer. To save the headache, might as well get one directly from him nowadays. I was lucky to pick mine up from a guy who was clueless.

But if you can find it all in one package that's obviously a plus.

best wishes,

ps the Demeter looks pretty cool. There was another thing I thought of, amp 1?

edit, it is the amp 1, but from the couple clips I heard, I'm not sure fusion is its strong point. And in ten years good luck repairing it.

**mr. beaumont** · 03-31-2016, 09:16 AM

Peavey Bandit and a big box RAT.

And I'm only half-kidding

**DRS** · 03-31-2016, 09:21 AM

Pritchard? Not cheap.

**jzucker** · 03-31-2016, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by DRS

Pritchard? Not cheap.

I had a pritchard. I thought it sounded extremely similar to the red-line peavey bandit. It wasn't very good for jazz which is the problem I had with the bandit. But additionally, you couldn't just casually add an external speaker cab to it without going through a lot of hassle.

The bandit sounded good for quiet stuff but on the gig it sounded horrible. I think the 80w was extremely optimistic. It was more like a 22w tube amp in terms of clean headroom.

Plus, it was almost 50lbs.

**mr. beaumont** · 03-31-2016, 09:43 AM

Ah, I didn't catch that you had done the Bandit route (even though I was kidding)

This thread does bring up a pretty important fact...I don't think there's a readily portable amp that does what you're looking for...and I don't think you're alone in wanting an amp that can do this stuff.

I've settled on a Polytone and a Tech 21 Blonde for my jazz band/stage/pit band work here where I teach. It does the job, but it's not ideal.

**vintagelove** · 03-31-2016, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

The one I had was AC powered and 4 knobs. It sounded ok but just wasn't very smooth sounding. I have found that to get the EJ tone, you really need to have a marshall amp turned up really loud. Then you can put an overdrive like the tube driver in front of it set for just the slightest amount of gain. When I used the tube driver in front of a SS amp, i thought it sounded too gritty. I do love EJ but I'm not crazy about his tone in the context of the kind of stuff I play.

I still love Tim Miller's sound the best of all the modern players. He has a bit of holdsworth tone to his playing but it's less "rock"ish and more smooth. Wish I could figure out how to get that out of the axefx. He was using a pod for most of his recordings.

Amp 1 does look cool but yeah, you're right. High tech device with all surface mounted components from a minor player in the industry doesn't bode well for long term but I'd love to try one. I wish a big player in the industry would make a version. Fuchs makes a great SS/Tube hybrid combo but it's $3k. I'd buy one if I were intending to gig with it but it's too much to use for the purpose I need it for.

Serious question, did you try the treble on zero? If not, to me, the pedal is "useless" because of that gritty high end. That, like I mentioned makes it kind of a one trick pony, but it's a great trick.

ok so your looking for fairly high gain, kinda tough in ss land.

have you tried two drives set moderately?

out of curiosity, any reason you're not doing the ethos pedal amp?

**jads57** · 03-31-2016, 10:25 AM

A Peavey Bandit? You have to be kidding me right? They have no bass response whatso ever. The Quilter products seemed to be Fender type of tone albeit more versatile. I'd politely suggest you try either the Steelaire or the MP200 HD newer version in the closed back 1x12 combo again, and see what conclusion you come to then.
I'm not trying to be adverserial here, I have owned just about almost every amp imaginable. Including 2 older Dumbles, and many SS as well as tube classics.

**jzucker** · 03-31-2016, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by vintagelove

Serious question, did you try the treble on zero? If not, to me, the pedal is "useless" because of that gritty high end. That, like I mentioned makes it kind of a one trick pony, but it's a great trick.

ok so your looking for fairly high gain, kinda tough in ss land.

have you tried two drives set moderately?

out of curiosity, any reason you're not doing the ethos pedal amp?

I don't know if I tried the treble on zero. Maybe not!

But I'm actually pretty happy with my wilson zen-clone. I love the overdrive tone of that along with my analogman TS9 though I'm tempted to try a rockett holdsworth....

I have tried 2 drives set moderately and I do like that tone as well as a drive and a fuzz together (EJ territory) though again, I don't use that tone too much with my fusion sound.

And, for some reason, I just never bonded with the ethos pedal. Too many knobs and everything is too interactive. The speaker simulation doesn't sound good to and when I originally looked at it, I think it was only 30w. Not sure what it's up to these days...

**jzucker** · 03-31-2016, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by jads57

A Peavey Bandit? You have to be kidding me right? They have no bass response whatso ever. The Quilter products seemed to be Fender type of tone albeit more versatile. I'd politely suggest you try either the Steelaire or the MP200 HD newer version in the closed back 1x12 combo again, and see what conclusion you come to then.
I'm not trying to be adverserial here, I have owned just about almost every amp imaginable. Including 2 older Dumbles, and many SS as well as tube classics.

You don't need huge bass response for live playing. It has plenty and most of the lack of bass is from the cheap speaker.

I also don't like the reverb on the quilter. I think it sounds cheap and cheesy and at it's price point, that should not be the case. And I don't like the sound of a closed 12" cab. It's something I'm trying to get away from. I don't think it sounds good for fusion tones or funk rhythm. And I listened to Rich Severson's MP200 demo and I don't like the tone at all.

And if you think the MP200 sounds better than a dumble (or clone), we have no common ground for discussing amp tone!

ymmv.

**jads57** · 03-31-2016, 11:27 AM

Actually there's a new version of the Micro Pro 200 w/ a Neo Celestion in a very tiny closed back cab. That amp has everything from Acoustic/Mic plug ins Overdive channel w/different boost options. You'd be hard pressed to find anything on the amp market that even comes close. By the way along w/ 2 OD Specials I also breifly owned the Ceriatone OD Special like yours.Nice electric amps, but all of the hassle to use outboard Kleinulator and seperate effects(rev,etc) I went back to a Mesa Boogie which was way less time consumming for gigging.

**jzucker** · 03-31-2016, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by jads57

Actually there's a new version of the Micro Pro 200 w/ a Neo Celestion in a very tiny closed back cab. That amp has everything from Acoustic/Mic plug ins Overdive channel w/different boost options. You'd be hard pressed to find anything on the amp market that even comes close. By the way along w/ 2 OD Specials I also breifly owned the Ceriatone OD Special like yours.Nice electric amps, but all of the hassle to use outboard Kleinulator and seperate effects(rev,etc) I went back to a Mesa Boogie which was way less time consumming for gigging.

I don't like the sound of a small , enclosed cabinet for funk, fusion or even jazz. The mambo amp I owned was perfect for a joe pass joy spring type tone but but other styles or even getting a wes / benson it suffered from the small cab...So, i'm not sure what the enclosed cab will do for me other than contribute to the nasally, middy, directional tone that they are well known for.

Not a good choice for funk or pop/fusion, rhythm guitar stuff ...

Post some clips of yours. I would love to be wrong here but the clips of severson just reinforce what I experienced....