Re-spray/paint Tele body?

[blackcat]

Finally decided that my Harley Benton TE52 is well worth keeping. Seem to play it daily ahead of my Ibanez and Peerless models and use it for teaching and more. Really love it's sound in spite of one or two inaccuracies in design. However, in spite of well nigh perfect fretting and a sympathetic neck I have decided that I can no longer live with the three-piece (non- matching ash body body). Lots of stuff on YT, but just wondering if anyone here has direct experience of re-spraying using eg automobile spray cans of acrylic paint? Any tips gratefully received.

[orri]

I sprayed my Harley Benton tele kit.
It was though a "first spray" rather than a respray.

Here's the tread I made at that time (you commented in it).
https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...e-diy-kit.html

I bought a can from a local specialized guitar part shop. It was a clear satin nitrocellulose lacquer that had their own label on it. It costed about 13 EUR for the can. That shop can unfortunately only ship pressurized spray cans locally.

It seemed to me that you need a bit practise and experience to be able to make it look really good.
You'll need some time to get a feeling for how much to use in each coating, how many coatings, how long between coatings, how much sanding (if any?) between coatings etc.
These factors probably vary for the spray paint you use.

But if you start with something relatively easy (a single colour), you can probably get adequate results the first time.
If you're not happy with the result you can sand it again and spray it again (if you have enough spray paint).

I think I made the mistake to use a bit too much spray in each coating. I should have sprayed less in each coating and used more coatings instead. But the result is still adequate.
I was also a bit impatient because I was so excited to try to play the guitar ASAP and hear what it sounded like

[Matt Cushman]

When it comes to finish work there is a good rule to follow. Always test your materials and your methods on some scrap wood first. This can save you time and give you a good idea of what type of results to expect.

[dingusmingus]

I've used spray cans from Reranch.
ReRanch Guitar Refinishing

On a beater Epiphone Les Paul, I also used regular enamel spray paint from the hardware store. Then a couple coats of Laquer. All over the old paint without stripping. Came out surprisingly well.

[blackcat]

Thanks for the tips guys. Will now just check with the local body shop here in France which undoubtedly will be way too expensive, even if they want to do it before embarking on the project. Thanks again for taking the tile to respond.

[goldenwave77]

Ash is really a porous wood that almost looks like oak, as far as grain and finish. Painting this is not going to work well, without filling it, and I don't really care for the look, which works better on more finely-grained woods.

If you play around with various stains which can be applied on top of clear sealer coats, you can get a more natural looking wood finish that you should probably look OK unless the grain pattern is really very pronounced on the different pieces. I did a 20' semi-spiral staircase in my house which I made into golden oak. By staining, and then restaining and sanding, when needed, I was able to get the entire railing to match, visually, even when the end grain pieces turned around corners. It is a bit of work, though.

Reranch.com is a great resource for guitar finishing. You can also dress up the body with a new pickguard to customize it for very little money.

[Longways to Go]

if you are spray painting a guitar, learning how to clear coat, wet sand, and use polishing compound is how to get pro results. It's basically the same approach as automotive or motorcycle style finish. Not particularly difficult, but patience and careful step by step approach is required -- and plenty of elbow grease!

[goldenwave77]

Might also consider a spray gun. There is something called a PreVal which is a portable, "instant spray gun" setup that is cheap (less than $35 I think) and is powered by CO2 cartridges, I believe. The Reranch site, I believe, has descriptions and accounts of how people used these.

[blackcat]

Ash is really a porous wood that almost looks like oak, as far as grain and finish. Painting this is not going to work well, without filling it, and I don't really care for the look, which works better on more finely-grained woods.

If you play around with various stains which can be applied on top of clear sealer coats, you can get a more natural looking wood finish that you should probably look OK unless the grain pattern is really very pronounced on the different pieces. I did a 20' semi-spiral staircase in my house which I made into golden oak. By staining, and then restaining and sanding, when needed, I was able to get the entire railing to match, visually, even when the end grain pieces turned around corners. It is a bit of work, though.

Reranch.com is a great resource for guitar finishing. You can also dress up the body with a new pickguard to customize it for very little money.

Thanks for that but I should have said that the existing body has a near perfect poly finish so perhaps that would just need a thorough, graded sanding before a first spray coat?

[Franz 1997]

I've done a lot of 'refinishing' over the years. Quite agree with above posts, that in some ways preparation ( e.g. grain filling) and the wet sanding. buffing stages are as/ more important than the finish application itself. If it helps, I have discovered that using a brush-on finish works just as well as spray guns, air brushes and aerosols. Of course, it only applies to one- colour finishes and clear nitro or other lacquer. The best 'fender blonde' on ash that I have got was done in haste using a brush, after the spray gun blocked right in the middle of spraying. Any brush marks just wet- sand right out. Some luthiers using brushing for finish application.

[blackcat]

Thanks for that Chris. Any advice on which exact type (not brand) of paint product, number of coats?

This is much more appealing! Always afraid of runs or overspraying when using cans or a gun.

Thanks again,

David

[DanielleOM]

I have a friend that spray painted a 50s vintage Les Paul purple back in the early 70s. He regrets doing that now.

[Franz 1997]

Thanks for that Chris. Any advice on which exact type (not brand) of paint product, number of coats?

This is much more appealing! Always afraid of runs or overspraying when using cans or a gun.

Thanks again,

David

I have only used undiluted ( thick) nitro lacquer, bought in bulk on ebay. To brush it on, you need to thin it with thinners so that is quite runny and less likely to show brush marks; about 2:1 thinners/ lacquer. You probably know that you can't use nitro and acrylic ( car) lacquer together, as they may react and the work is ruined.

For preparation, I use grain filler, which is sanded off. You then can seal the filler with one coat of undiluted lacquer, let dry, and sand perfectly flat. Then you add the ( thinned, 1:1) colour coat; 2 or 3 coats usually does it. Then you brush thinned ( 2:1) clear ( or tinted) nitro lacquer over the colour coat. I use between 10 and 15 coats. I don't sand in between coats. After drying time ( 1- 3 weeks, depending on weather) you then wet sand down through the grits, and when satisfied, you buff the finish to the gloss you want. I use T cut. Micromesh grit paper is very good for wet sanding a nitro finish. You need to be careful sanding the edges not to cut through the colour coats down to the wood.

For brushing, I use a 1" fine-haired, good quality painters brush, which you must clean in thinners every 3 coats or so. You must never let the brush dry out. Occasionally you will get a stray bristle in the lacquer, which you just grab with a pair of tweezers. It's important to work confidently and quickly, with long strokes and enough thinned lacquer on the wood to enable an easy flow. Thinned lacquer dries very quickly. You can only tell how much lacquer to use by experience, but I find too little is worse than too much, as it leaves marks. It's also important to look at the work in enough daylight so as to be able to see how the lacquer is going on the wood- it's impossible to do this if there isn't enough light to see the lacquer surface properly.

This is how I do it; a sort of rough, but effective method. Even this crude method calls for a lot of patience. I'm quite sure there are many better ways. I have tried spray guns and aerosol cans, but it is very easy to get runs, under and over-coverage etc., unless one is a pro. Of course, for a sunburst, there is no choice but to spray.

[blackcat]

Thanks Danielle and I understand, but this is a Thomann version of a Tele retailing at 128€ ( that for whatever, reason has great tone and playability ) that has three badly matching pieces of ash for a body, and that I have no intention of selling. No great loss involved in the sense that it will be a definite improvement and not a corruption of a classic!

[Matt Cushman]

For a one time finishing project like you describe I would use acrylic color sealed with clear waterborne top coats. One concern when refinishing is getting good adhesion to the old finish. The big advantage with a waterborne finish is the low toxicity and they brush on and clean up with water. I don't know what you have available where you are located but stew mac sells a good clear waterborne product for brushing. They use waterborne finish on cars so durability should be no problem. Nitro lacquer is very toxic so if you use nitro please work safely.

[MaxTwang]

The solvents in nitro lacquer are very flammable, only use in well ventilated area away from open flames or sparks. The fumes from the solvents are pretty nasty for your lungs too (the Heritage video showing employees spraying without respirators will someday be evidence at a workman's compensation or OSHA hearing against Heritage).

[Franz 1997]

For a one time finishing project like you describe I would use acrylic color sealed with clear waterborne top coats. One concern when refinishing is getting good adhesion to the old finish. The big advantage with a waterborne finish is the low toxicity and they brush on and clean up with water. I don't know what you have available where you are located but stew mac sells a good clear waterborne product for brushing. They use waterborne finish on cars so durability should be no problem. Nitro lacquer is very toxic so if you use nitro please work safely.

The low toxicity appealed to me too, but the only time I have tried a waterborne finish ( KTM 90???) it didn't adhere well, and was difficult to get a gloss. I won't do that again; the guitar body in question is still under my bench, unfinished. Worth noting that waterborne finishes have to be applied before the previous coat is fully dried, otherwise they don't adhere, and therefore touchup or repair is very difficult, and finishing over a a ( dried) sealer coat is problematic.

Perhaps waterborne finishes have improved in the last couple of years, but these were very practical limitations to their use a few years ago. Few luthiers seem to be offering them; I know one who used to, but stopped, possibly because of these difficulties.

Matt, you seem to be a professional, so perhaps you can comment on any solutions to these (possibly teething?) issues with water-based finishes; I'd be very interested.

[Matt Cushman]

I also tried a version of ktm about 15 years ago and I had fairly good results as I recall. I think it built up slowly and took too many coats. The waterborne has improved over the years but there is a learning curve with these finishes that can be vexing at times. The latest formulas are easy to repair and adhere well between coats. Waterborne needs a hard base to sit on such as shellac or epoxy. I use target em 6000 hybrid varnish and it buffs to a high gloss after it has cured for only week. The downside to the target em6000 is it has a yellow or amber tint that slightly tints white binding. A finish of shellac under the target can be applied very thinly and have very little impact on the tone of an acoustic guitar while still having the high gloss look of a lacquer finish.

[Cunamara]

KTM-9 or KTM-SV?

KTM-SV An Overlooked Finish for Mandolins and Guitars

I'd never heard of this.

BTW, Matt, I think my guitar of yours has that finish (bought it from you in 2006 via eBay, if that helps; blonde with a yellow-amber tint. I remember you mentioning an epoxy base or something). The surface is hard and durable- there is just a tiny bit of wear on the corner of the binding where my right forearm rests and a little bit along the neck binding. I've played this guitar almost every day for a decade. No adverse tone effects that I can hear, it's got a nice balanced voice with good bass response and good volume. The guitar seems unperturbed by Minnesota seasons, just a tiny tweak of the bridge height and neck relief twice a year.

[Herbie]

I once painted a guitar body with car spray. It looked like a first timer had painted it with a car spray.

Nowadays I use local luthiers for resprays. They have been schooled to it and they have trained it more than I can ever.

[MaxTwang]

Didn't Fender use DuPont lacquer and Fullerplast - both car products?