Lollar Imperial?

**jbucklin** · 04-18-2016, 08:29 PM

Just replaced the '57 Classic in my '59 Historic 175 with an Imperial Regular Wind and I'm horrified at how it sounds. What's weird is last week I replaced the cheap Armstrong pickups in my D'Angelico EX-SS with the same Lollar pickups and it sounds worlds better. I can't wait to get the '57 back on the 175. I must say I am shocked, to say the least. This guitar through my modded '65 DRRI sounds like a really bad, nasally SS Crate.

**jbucklin** · 04-18-2016, 10:20 PM

Sorry I didn't introduce myself. I've been lurking here for awhile while obsessing on gear. You guys are great and I've learned a lot from many on this forum.
I think my ears are starting to adjust to the Imperial. I forgot to mention that I also restrung the 175 with TI flats and between the pups and the new strings the guitar has taken on completely different characteristics.

**rio** · 04-18-2016, 10:31 PM

My only experience with Lollar was buying a couple Special T pickups for a Mexican tele I had. They were both phenomenal. Have you written them about your disappointment? I have not read much bad about them and since you had good experiences on one guitar with the same pickup that is unusual.

**MaxTwang** · 04-18-2016, 11:51 PM

Give Lollar a holler, they have chat support on their website during business hours. I have Blonds and Blacks on a couple Strats and love them.

I'm about to buy a Lollartron for a G&L Bluesboy, turn it into a 1/2 Cabronita.

**NoReply** · 04-19-2016, 12:21 AM

I have a Low Wind Imperial and sounds great. I would say solder a jack directly to the pickup and see how it sounds. If it sound good then something wrong in the wiring harness, bad solder joint?

**Petimar** · 04-19-2016, 02:19 AM

I have a Lollar Charlie Christian and it is great!

**Franz 1997** · 04-19-2016, 06:03 AM

I have had a similar experience, in replacing a gibson T top pickup on a 175 with a boutique Bare Knuckles Mule pickup- it sounded nasal and flat. But IMO it's about the particular guitar/ pickup combination, not just the pickup; some pickups seem to suit the individual characteristics of particular guitars, some not. In my case, T tops worked well with this particular 175, but there was nothing wrong with the boutique pickup at all, it sounds great on other, similar guitars.

I find it can be very misleading to think of pickups as 'good', 'amazing' or 'poor'; they are only passive transducers that 'pick up' the complex signal that they sense from the instrument, and colour the tone but don't, and can't, do anything more. No doubt many will strongly disagree

My experience with Lollar is that everything I've had from Jason sounded very good.

**Drifter** · 04-19-2016, 06:16 AM

I have Imperial Regular Winds in a Heritage Millennium and couldn't be more satisfied. I haven't tried other pickups in that guitar but to me they are very natural sounding and bring out the instruments natural tone extremely well. In your case, I'd rather wonder what the Classic 57s have done to the instruments tone, in a positive way that might be.

Also, if you have used the guitar with roundwound strings before the pickup change and now use flatwounds, well, no wonder it sounds different.

Good luck on your quest for tone!

**Herbie** · 04-19-2016, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by jbucklin

I think my ears are starting to adjust to the Imperial. I forgot to mention that I also restrung the 175 with TI flats and between the pups and the new strings the guitar has taken on completely different characteristics.

I think that the reason is here. One should never fix more than one thing in the guitar. And I forget this always too!

Accidentally I too tried just Lollar Imperial in my ES175 VOS 1PU and thought that it does not sound much different than stock Classic '57. Maybe more flat, more even.

Now I am trying a Low Wind Imperial. No more boomy bass strings! ...but does it make my guitar even more bright?

I am considering to try TI Swing .013 set after years of .012 TI Bensons. I'll decide the pickup thing after I have got used (or not) to .013's.

What an exciting spring we are living!

**jbucklin** · 04-19-2016, 06:31 AM

The tech I used to install the Lollar had to solder the ground wire to a pot (can't remember if it was volume or tone pot) and soldered a guitar string to the ground wire for some reason. Could this affect the tone in some way?

**Herbie** · 04-19-2016, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by jbucklin

The tech I used to install the Lollar had to solder the ground wire to a pot (can't remember if it was volume or tone pot) and soldered a guitar string to the ground wire for some reason. Could this affect the tone in some way?

If he has done it correctly, it should make Your sound better! Less buzzes etc. If he has done something wrong, there is two things I could imagine: bad grounding –> more buzzing. Or ground wire meets the hot wire –> no sound at all.

In the beginning You did not describe in which way the new sound is disappointing. Muffled? Screechy and thin? "No Joe Pass"?

And one more question: is the pickup(s) 1 wire braided shield or 4 wired?

**jbucklin** · 04-19-2016, 08:34 AM

Hmm. Muffled, nasally, not near the output of the '57 which had a very open, airy sound.

**SamBooka** · 04-19-2016, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by rio

My only experience with Lollar was buying a couple Special T pickups for a Mexican tele I had. They were both phenomenal. Have you written them about your disappointment? I have not read much bad about them and since you had good experiences on one guitar with the same pickup that is unusual.

Special T neck is a great jazz pickup. Special T bridge is pretty good but the honeymoon wore off quickly.

Call Lollar (or email them.. ) their support is great.

OP.. what strings were you using before the TIs?

**Herbie** · 04-19-2016, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by jbucklin

Hmm. Muffled, nasally, not near the output of the '57 which had a very open, airy sound.

This is weird! Lollars should be open and airy compared to Classic 57's!

Could this be Your new strings compared to the old ones?

I would suggest first contacting Your tech first.

**jbucklin** · 04-19-2016, 01:43 PM

I'm thinking it is probably the strings. I had Ernie Ball 11s on it for a few days. It's weird, when I leave it for a few hours it sounds better when I start playing it again.

I failed to mention in my OP that this is a single pickup 175.

**add4** · 04-20-2016, 10:40 AM

Are you 100% sure that the pickup has been installed correctly?
bad solder could cause signal loss.
Bad wiring could mean phase issues or weird interactions with the other pickups.

Just because you have sound doesn't mean it's the sound it's supposed to produce..

i would check that?

**jbucklin** · 04-20-2016, 11:47 AM

I'm pretty certain that it's been soldered correctly. The tech I use is great and definitely knows what he's doing. I have to adjust my amps differently and the TIs have a character all their own. Also, my ears have adjusted and I am very happy now!

I failed to mention in my OP that this is a single pickup 175.

**lawson-stone** · 04-20-2016, 11:56 AM

These 1959 VOS Memphis ES175 models are tricky with pickups. The guitar is much lighter than contemporary 175s. Mine weighs just 5 pounds! They also have the skinny frets, which many think affects tone. The result is that pickups that sound a certain way on some guitars can sound a bit different on this one. For example, the 57 Classic is thought to be warm and "polite" on many guitars, but often on the 1959 VOS model of the ES175 it has a bit of bite and snarl in the treble that is hard to dial out. The reason is that's coming as much from the guitar's construction as it is from the pickup.

So you might just have a poor guitar/pickup interaction going on here.

**jbucklin** · 04-20-2016, 04:02 PM

I have four amps: '65 DRRI, '65 PRRI, Blues Jr. NOS, Polytone MiniBrute III (early 80s).The DRRI has a Cannabis Rex, a Jan GE 5751 in V2, and I had the bright cap removed. The PRRI has the same 5751 in V2 and I'm awaiting the arrival of a Weber 10F150 to replace the stock speaker with. Surprisingly the Lollar sounds the worst through the Deluxe. I've managed to coax a pretty decent sound out of the Princeton. I'm thinking the C Rex has something to do with the boxy nasally tone I'm getting with the Deluxe. Both amps sounded great with the '57.

I bought an amp stand to use on a gig where the room is an acoustical nightmare. One thing I've been doing is using the amp stand to practice and for testing pickups etc. so that the amp is right in my ear. Very revealing.

I'm torn. I'm trying to decide if I should just give up on the Lollar and put the '57 back in with hopes of getting my money back or if I should stick with the stock speakers in both amps and cancel the order with Weber. Sigh. Lawson, I'm thinking you just might be right: these vos 175s may just be really picky about pickups.

**jbucklin** · 04-21-2016, 04:12 PM

Well, for those who are interested, I went ahead and had my tech put the '57 back in the 175. The guitar and I am very happy!

**Skip Ellis** · 04-21-2016, 04:40 PM

Recently I swapped the CC in my Tele back to the original Tele pickup. When the switch was on either pickup, it sounded just fine but when in the center position, it sounded terrible and very 'nasal'. Turned out I had accidentally reversed the polarity when I reinstalled the original.Just swapped the wires on the switch and everything's wonderful again. Might want to check that.

**lawson-stone** · 04-21-2016, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by jbucklin

I have four amps: '65 DRRI, '65 PRRI, Blues Jr. NOS, Polytone MiniBrute III (early 80s).The DRRI has a Cannabis Rex, a Jan GE 5751 in V2, and I had the bright cap removed. The PRRI has the same 5751 in V2 and I'm awaiting the arrival of a Weber 10F150 to replace the stock speaker with. Surprisingly the Lollar sounds the worst through the Deluxe. I've managed to coax a pretty decent sound out of the Princeton. I'm thinking the C Rex has something to do with the boxy nasally tone I'm getting with the Deluxe. Both amps sounded great with the '57.

I bought an amp stand to use on a gig where the room is an acoustical nightmare. One thing I've been doing is using the amp stand to practice and for testing pickups etc. so that the amp is right in my ear. Very revealing.

I'm torn. I'm trying to decide if I should just give up on the Lollar and put the '57 back in with hopes of getting my money back or if I should stick with the stock speakers in both amps and cancel the order with Weber. Sigh. Lawson, I'm thinking you just might be right: these vos 175s may just be really picky about pickups.

Hey I just put a Seymour Duncan "Antiquity" pickup in the neck spot and that's "it" now for me. Not dramatic, but definite. Somehow it's smoother, a little more middle, a little softer attack on the highs, though if I pick hard it'll still "spank" which I kinda like--except now I can control it.

Just like when I put the SD-Seth Lover on my Epiphone Broadway, the tone seems more well-defined somehow, more articulated and smooth--horribly imprecise words I know, but this Antiquity pu is a nice "evolution" from the Classic 57, but not a total shift away.

I think if you wanted really sweet/mellow, the SD-Seth Lover would work, or even the Gibson 490R which on my ES165 Herb Ellis is absolute honey in the comb.

**jbucklin** · 04-21-2016, 09:52 PM

No, Lawson, those are very precise words! The Antiquity sounds like exactly what I need. I like the '57, it's just a little, uh...fuzzy, or furry(?) sounding. How's that for imprecise wording? Thank you for your input. You never know what a pup is gonna sound like until you shell out the cash and install it, unfortunately.