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Hello everyone, I bought a second hand epiphone dot lately and I love it, but it came with 0.10 strings, and I would like a warmer sound. So I want to change strings to .12 but I don't want to spend money on a professional setup. Is it possible to setup the guitar to another gauge at home? And if so can someone explain me what to do (I guess it includes truss rod, fine tune the bridge and so on.. )
Thank you very much
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04-24-2016 09:42 AM
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No big deal really. Just put on the 12s and see how the guitar responds first. Don't do anything if you don't need to. Play it -- the guitar will tell you what it needs. I have jumped gauges on a lot of guitars (like from 8s to 12s) and even then only minimal adjustments are required. I find I can get my action a little lower with heavier strings (especially flats) so I might drop that a touch. Generally though you'll be putting more tension on the neck with a heavier gauge so you might need to put a touch more tension on the truss rod to counteract that and get your action right. Do 1/8 turn and see how the guitar responds. 1/4 turn is usually more than enough. Avoid doing any more than a 1/2 turn.
Last edited by wildschwein; 04-25-2016 at 05:50 AM.
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It depends on whether the nut slots will take the 12s without needing to be refiled, if the slots need refiling you need to know what you are doing if the strings don't sit in the slots properly they will be to high at the first fret and will bind in the slots. bad slots in the nut can cause intonation problems.
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I always recommend taking it to a good tech. Not just any tech but a known good one. A good tech could do more than just change the strings on your guitar. Do it once. Do it right.
Since it is an Epiphone ES-335 Dot, you could just change the gauge of the strings yourself and if it does not play well, take it to a known good tech.
Don't automatically adjust the truss rod when you change the gauge of strings. Let it sit a week and see what needs to be done.
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Changing strings on a guitar shouldn't automatically mean a trip to a professional guitar tech.
Like the other respondents have mentioned, you should put on the new strings and let them settle in and see how it goes. If anything, you may need to adjust the truss rod and file the nut slots to accommodate the new strings. You will also probably have to adjust the intonation.
The truss rod adjustment and intonation are two things that you can easily do yourself - in fact, I would recommend learning how to do both those things if you don't already know how.
The nut slot can be a bit trickier. I've filed nut slots on my guitars with good results. You simply to need to get the proper tools and take your time. If you're not comfortable, however, filing a nut slot is something most techs can do at a reasonable price.
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It's this simple: go ahead and change the strings.
Best case, the nut slots and other specs are fine for bigger strings, and the neck might just respond naturally to the increased tension and play the way you want it. Two years ago, I borrowed a Loar LH-600 when I arrived on a fly-out gig. It had 12's, and I threw 13's on it (with a 14/18 on top). After a day, it actually played perfectly, even better than with the 12's. And it sounded WAY better - definitely one of those occasions where heavier strings were really needed to make the top work (which is not true of every guitar). It's perfectly possible you could luck out.
Worst case, either the neck will need adjustment with the truss rod, or the nut/bridge slots or other specs just won't work with heavier strings and you'll need to take it to a tech. And jumping up the tension (especially if it's only from 10 to 12) is totally reversible - even if the neck bowed a ton in response to the increased tension, you can just as easily change it back, no harm, no foul.
Assuming you have a good tech, I'd skip a step to save the time and futzing around. I'd rather have my guitar play exactly the way I want it for under $100 than play a guitar I know isn't really playing properly.Last edited by campusfive; 04-25-2016 at 12:00 PM.
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I have a Dot also, it came with 10's and I put Chrome 12's on her and haven't had to touch a thing. It has been about 2 months since the string switch. Just do it...
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OK, thanks everyone. I'll change the strings myself.
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For the price of one setup, potentially more if you never learn to do it yourself, you can buy nut files and the cheapest POS guitar you can find if you want to practice first. It is SO worth it to know how to maintain your guitar, and all you have to know to change string gauges is how to adjust the neck (no you don't have to wait a week to adjust it - if you see a change in the neck, and you most likely will going from .010 to .012 then adjust it right after and then check again every few days) and how to widen the nut slots with files. Lots of information via Google on how to do both. My preferred method to check the neck straightness is to press down the first feet and a fret near the body where the truss rod would end (somewhere around 12-15 depending on the type of guitar) and check for how much room there is between the string and the fret around the 7th fret. You want just enough room for a piece of paper to slip through there if you like a flat neck. From there, you can also lower the string height at the bridge since heavier strings can go lower than lighter ones without buzzing.
Learning to do this yourself with both save you a lot of money over the years and also enable you to have your guitar always playing how you want it too - change of season? Humidity? Temperture? They all affect string height depending on the guitar and you will be equipped to make the small adjustments needed to always keep the strings where you want them after you learn to do a basic setup. I'm sure others would also say let us know if you have any questions. I'm happy to help if you decide to learn to do this.
E: forgot to mention you will also most definitely have to fix the intonation going from .010s to .012s, particularly on the third string. This is also very easy to do once you learn how.
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How To Adjust Your Truss Rod | Check Guitar Neck Relief | Fix Neck Bow
Intonation: play the twelfth fret on a string and then play the harmonic. Use a tuner and if they are not the same use a screwdriver to turn the screw under the string to move that part of the bridge forwards or backwards until the fretted note is in tune.
Nut: After putting on the new strings, press the third fret and look at the distance between the string and first fret. You want only enough room for a piece of paper to slide through. Most guitars from the factory do t have the nut slots low enough so even with .010 gauge strings this still probably would have to be done for the best playing neck you can get. Move the string to the side to the next nut slot and slowly file. Put the string back in the slot and check again. Repeat until it is low enough. Be sure to go slow because of you file too much it is complicated to fill the slot back in (bone dust and superglue etc) - it is a pain so just go slow and check often.
String height: easy with a tuneomatic. Use a screwdriver to lower the bridge. Turn equally on both the treble and bass side to start (one turn on each side). how low you go depends on how level your frets are. Press down the first fret of the first and sixth strings to check your string height at the twelfth fret. I like 1.5mm or a little lower on the treble side (a 1.5mm pick fits snuggle under the first string when pressing the first fret and sliding a 1.5mm pick between the twelfth fret and string.Last edited by rio; 04-25-2016 at 01:49 PM.
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There is a way of not filing the nut too deep or wide in case you are going several gauges up at once. Dig into the nut slot with roundwound strings of about the same gauge and use them as flexible files (almost like flossing teeth). I have done this and it worked.
I still want to buy some nice nut files but until then this is cheap and safe.
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I played for a long time before I ever even found out that you were supposed to re-set the guitar if you changed string gauge. Most of the time I never even noticed any difference in action or intonation.
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Probably easier not to notice, but other musicians certainly do (maybe not so much in rock) and once you do you never go back. Going from a plain G to a wound will usually have you significantly out of tune further up the neck without adjustment. Regarding the action, I know some guys who just play whatever action and are not picky about it (pun intended). If you are used to medium or high action in particular because you won't get the buzzing that come with lower action and a bowed neck. But looking for the easiest to play neck possible, I'll notice a mm difference easily since I want all my guitars playing the same. Then there are some beefy neck guitars that just don't change much despite gauge changes too.
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Adjusting truss rod, changing bridge height and setting intonation are all things every guitarist should be able to do, imho.
Filling string slots in the nut is another thing as that requires expensive tools that cost more to buy than taking it to a luthier.
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Why are there guitars with broken truss rods if adjusting the truss rod is that easy? It is easy to fook up, that is all I know, because it is as easy as turning the truss rod wrench. But that is the wrong way to go about it.
Look up Dan Erlewine and let him show you how. Turning the truss rod wrench mainly works the first few times until it does not work. That's because you are damaging your guitar incrementally everytime you turn that thing. You are compressing the wood at the anchor end of the truss rod. Mahogany necks are especially vulnerable as mahogany is soft. That is why Les Pauls, ES-335s, and ES-175s with broken truss rods are legion.
Take it to a good tech. Most of you commenting shouldn't be adjusting truss rods. If you do and fook up your guitar at least have the decency not to flog it off on some unsuspecting bastard.
Look, man, you should be applying an external force to the neck to bend it to the desired relief and then lock the truss rod nut down to hold it. The anchor and truss rod nut ends should not be applying the force to bend the neck into desired relief. Of course, you can do that but you damage the wood each time you do that. Think about it.
Sure, it sounds like unnecessary twaddle and a joke until the day you run out of thread or hear that dreadful sound...
That said, I have bumped up gauges from 10s to 12s on many guitars. I have never seen the need to adjust the truss rod. Maybe it's because I like chunky necks. Maybe it's because I don't play 330bpm. Maybe it's because I let the neck settle at its own pace to adjust to the increased force. And maybe, just maybe, the difference is so slight that it makes no real damn difference at all.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 04-26-2016 at 05:38 AM.
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Wow guys you helped me a lot. Thank you all for your answers, I guess I really should learn to setup my guitar..
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There are broken truss rods because people turn too fast and force it when it's stuck. Slow turns, a quarter turn at a time and NEVER tightening when you feel too much resistance are key. If the truss rid is stuck then it is time to take it to the shop. The truss rod is basic and easy.
There are plenty of players who will tell you it makes a big difference to them, myself included. It doesn't matter to some but that doesn't mean that it "makes no difference at all".
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
Last edited by rio; 04-26-2016 at 08:47 AM.
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Epiphone Dot is perfect for learning a little set up stuff. Originally Posted by zorner
No Worries
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Rio, I'm going to sound like a jerk no matter my intentions but are you suggesting a quarter turn at a time? Now I know why there are so many broken truss rods.
Please review what you have just written. I do agree with you that the truss rod is basic and easy...and that it is why it is dangerous to your guitar because it is basic and easy to fook it up.
Please, please listen to Dan Erlewine. How many "quarter turns" can you make before you run out of thread?*
Been in this for too long. It always appears to be harmless until shit happens. As I said, it usually appears to work and be fine for the first few turns you make...
* Why do you run out of thread over time? That is because by letting the truss rod do the work of forcing relief you are compressing the wood against which the end of the truss rod is anchored. Wood once compressed remains compressed. It does not spring back to its former shape. So, the truss rod channel becomes shorter over time with repeated turning of the truss rod. And why would you turn the truss rod repeatedly? Because the truss rod channel has become shorter due to wood compression and the truss rod works on providing tension. Rinse. Repeat. And you soon run out of thread. You don't know it because you can't see it. You keep turning the nut because the "truss rod is basic and easy". You hear the sickening snap of metal breaking like a wood screw which cannot be driven in anymore.
Do it right like Erlewine suggests and your guitar lasts a lot longer. Do it the wrong way and you are shortchanging your guitar. But you won't know it until it is too late.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 04-26-2016 at 11:17 AM.
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I've heard that it should be a eighth of a turn, then let it sit for 24 hours. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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Well, I probably never changed more than a gauge or two in any direction, and certainly never went from a wound to an unwound g string or anything like that. Originally Posted by rio
By the time I had enough money to buy a good guitar, I'd learned to do setups, and I do them on my guitars periodically anyway, whether I've changed gauges or not.
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I'm pretty easygoing so you are not at all sounding like a jerk.
A quarter turn max - on an Epiphone like the guitar the OP has the neck is probably not that substantial so that will likely be all it needs, if that. For seasonal or weather changes it doesn't need much of a turn at all. I am not mentioning applying pressure to the neck because without experience you can definitely mess up the neck doing that, but I have had guitars that needed that with stubborn truss rods. For someone learning how to adjust a truss rod though, in this case not a vintage instrument and an (I am assuming) fairly new Epiphone, soneshere within a quarter turn should get the neck where it should be. You can feel if a truss rod is maxing out and he is not going to be in that situation.
I reviewed what I wrote - sorry I did word that poorly. Just mean a quarter turn max should all that would ever be needed each time the neck needs adjustment, and that will only be if there is quite a big bow which can be possible jumping up two string gauges.
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When it comes to truss rod adjustment, I recommend that a quick inspection of the nut and washer is done before any tightening is attempted. Old truss rods are prone to corrosion around the threads and it is possible to strip them or sometimes even break the rod where the threads end. It is after a quick inspection that you decide if some lubrication is needed as it often is. Once you have a solidly fit wrench on the nut then loosen it first. If it turns smoothly then you can check to be sure that the threaded portion of the rod extends past the washer. You don't want the nut to bottom out and run out of threads. Turning the nut beyond the threaded section is how some rods get broken. If you are going to run out of threads, an extra washer or two will be needed. Now that you know the rod works, you can adjust it as needed by doing as Jabberwoky says, by applying an external force to the neck to bend the neck to the desired relief and then using the truss rod nut to hold it in the desired position. Some truss rods are more effective than others. A deeply set truss rod can often work on it's own without any help from external forces. Some rods are totally ineffective and always need help from external forces when adjusting them.
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I must apologise for my belleigerent manner of writing. Short man, small hands syndrome.
You read it here on the Internet from the Jabberwacko TonMeister hisself so take it with a large pinch of salt: go buy a sack of buckshot. How many pounds? I don't know. They are sold in a 25-pound sack, aren't they? I am not responsible for any damage to anyone's guitar resulting from following my suggestion.
Weigh about 5 pounds in a sack. Just guesstimating. Get or make two guitar neck cradles, and a few blankets. Balance the neck on the two cradles, one point under the nut at the headstock, the other point a little forward of the heel. Raise the body of the guitar on the blankets so that the guitar sits relatively flat.
With the heavier gauge strings tuned to pitch, sit the 5 pound bag of buckshot on the 8th fret of the fretboard. If the truss rod nut and threads are well lubricated, the nut should just tighten 1/16th to 1/8th turn with little to no effort at all. Remove sack, tune to pitch, check relief. Not enough relief? Increase weight of buckshot by increments of 2.5 pounds each (my guesstimate) until desired relief is obtained.
You want to help the truss rod along by letting weight pressing down on the neck to do the hard work of forcing relief. You will know that you got it right when the nut moves without any effort. I'd do the same procedure to take out relief.
As Matt Cushman said so aptly, there are different truss rods of different qualities. It is the Gibson-style truss rod, especially in a mahogany neck, that strikes fear in me.
The truss rod is really meant to hold desired neck relief, not set it.
I an not a scaredy cat but ask a luthier for a quote to replace a broken truss rod. It will make you blanch. Because it takes a lot of work.
YMMV.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 04-26-2016 at 12:09 PM.
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Oh yeah, the truss rod is NOT for fettling playing or string action. That is done at the bridge and with a properly dressed nut.
"How low can you go" is not the job of the truss rod.
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