Gibson Custom Shop Super 400 Lamp Black Florentine with Bigsby

[Bluedawg]

So I played this lovely guitar the other day and I was impressed with the deep rich sound

Gibson Custom Shop Super 400 Lamp Black Florentine with | Reverb



I'm not fond of the ebony color, but the playability and tone was awesome ... and I didn't even mind the Bigsby

I've been jonesing for an 18 inch archtop electric for some time ... I've been enjoying the 18 inch Campellone acoustic I picked up last fall

I've had my eyes and in one case, my hands, on some other nice Super 400s for much less than what they are asking for this .... and I'm not too fond of an ebony finish on a guitar this expensive

I'm trying to figure if I can sell enough to solid bodies to finally get a Super 400 ...

I'm also a fan of Heritage and wonder how the Super Eagles compare on average to the Super 400s ... Can anyone speak to that? ...

I could certainly save a lot of money with a Heritage ... although there would always be that tickle in the back of my head for a Gibson

Any thoughts from the jazzguitar.be brothers and sisters?

[Jabberwocky]

I understand that Chris Amato still has one of his late father's twin bucker Super Eagles for sale, the last one.

You should have placed a bid on that 2002 Super 400CESN during the Guernsey's auction. $3750 plus 25% Buyer's Premium! But that ship has sailed.

Here's how I look at the 18" Super 400CES (and the Super Eagle). It is for people who think that the 17" L-5CES (Golden Eagle) is not enough bling. You take that 18" of whupass out of its humungous case and it says, Serious Jazz Guitar Player. Instant street cred.. It is a lot of pressure on you though; better be sure you are one of the 0.02% who can play. And one spot has already been filled.

Don't you have a 2003 Braz. RW boarded R9? That can get you almost a new Super 400CES. But while the BRW 2003 R9 will hold its value in the forseeable future a Super 400CES bought new won't.

I have followed Danny W's posts for some years now. Danny used to have four to five Super 400s and he sold them all in favour of the L-5s. Too big to play comfortably.

I cannot resist the allure of the Super 400CES. I have one in Charlie Christian form. I am jonesing for the 1994 S400CES with the single neck humbucker. And I hope it comes up for sale one day. My Grail.


Note that there is a Thinline version of the Super 400CES., 2.75" to 3" at the rim.

I don't have much significantly meaningful experience with the Super Eagle but my thoughts are that on a whole, Heritage archtops are voiced for a more acoustic response, even plugged in. Their tops are carved thinner. The Super Eagle has a 3" rim depth, and a shorter body than the Super 400CES. Also a smaller upper bout. The internal cubic volume is thus reduced. These factors contribute to the Super Eagle having its own voice. So, if you are looking for a Super 400CES voice, the Super Eagle may not be the substitute. Heritages have always struck me as white wines whilst Gibsons are robust reds. Perhaps the Heritage owners would disabuse me of that notion.

A huge commitment, Bluedawg. A twin buckered Super 400CES is on my bucket list if My Grail doesn't show up soon. I plugged my Super 400CC into a Carr Rambler and Skylark recently. I wore a stupid grin on my face before my arms went to sleep. Short arms. Small hands. Drumpffffff.

[Jabberwocky]

If you don't mind the Bigsby you can find 70s Super 400CESs for about $5000. I won't pay more.

The Super 400 tailpiece is worth a lot but watch out for fakes on ebay out of China (obvious) and Germany (not so obvious but of the same Chinese source). Not gonna name them.

[tusculum]

Yield to temptation. The Super 400 is one of the greats, electrified or acoustic. I have never played a Super 400 of any era that I didn't like, reflecting the design is right and the workmanship at Gibson was first class for the model even in the "bad old days" eg 70s, early 80s. I think the guys in Kalamazoo cared even if management didn't. The necks are great, the action is easy to get adjusted to taste and the sound is warm and earthy.

Unless you want a bigsby, avoid the extra weight and tuning risk. I also prefer the rosewood bridge and original tailpiece but that is a question of taste.

Heritage make a great competitor in the Kenny Burrell model but I sold mine as the pickups were overpowering for my preference. If you want special pickups then swap them in, like Larry Coryell has with his Super 400 and you will rule.

[Bluedawg]

I have thought about sacrificing my Braz R9 in exchange for a Super 400 ... I played this Super 400 at Rainbow. Harvey himself brought it out of the back storage room for me and Harvey's eyes lit up when I mentioned my R9

I'm not sure I can let go of my R9. I want to be among the cynics that say the fingerboard can't make that much difference, but the best LPs that I have played had Brazilian rosewood for fingerboards .... I still regret not buying the R7 braz that I tried back in '03 when they were still cheap, I could have had it new for $1600.

This black S400 is there on consignment and I think I could get a better price than the one listed, but I wouldn't offer more than $6K. Harvey just sold a crimson red Citation for the same seller. Unfortunately, I missed a chance to play the Citation.

I think I would prefer the '76 sunburst S400 that I played in Austin last year. I should be able to pick that up for $7K or less. It is still for sale and the store also has a blonde '76 S400. It would also be a great road trip for the wife and me to go pick it up in person.

I think I have enough neglected solid bodies to raise the money without letting go of my R9.


Then again Rainbow has a very nice Tal Farlow that needs a good home.

Harvey is also selling this koa L5. I think it is on consignment for the same person.

https://reverb.com/item/2048815-gibs...5-ces-koa-2014

The acoustic sound is heavenly. IIRC this koa L5 was discussed on here not too long ago. Wish I had the money for all of these.

[Bluedawg]

Yield to temptation. The Super 400 is one of the greats, electrified or acoustic. I have never played a Super 400 of any era that I didn't like, reflecting the design is right and the workmanship at Gibson was first class for the model even in the "bad old days" eg 70s, early 80s. I think the guys in Kalamazoo cared even if management didn't. The necks are great, the action is easy to get adjusted to taste and the sound is warm and earthy.

Unless you want a bigsby, avoid the extra weight and tuning risk. I also prefer the rosewood bridge and original tailpiece but that is a question of taste.

Heritage make a great competitor in the Kenny Burrell model but I sold mine as the pickups were overpowering for my preference. If you want special pickups then swap them in, like Larry Coryell has with his Super 400 and you will rule.

I have played a S400 that I thought was quite bad. I think it was a '62. Thin neck and even thinner sound. That S400 and a couple of the 60s Johnny Smiths that I played have made me wary of 60s Gibson archtops.

The 76 S400 that I played was quite nice and is still on my radar if I can sell off enough guitars to raise the cash.

[stringmaster]

I have thought about sacrificing my Braz R9 in exchange for a Super 400 ... I played this Super 400 at Rainbow. Harvey himself brought it out of the back storage room for me and Harvey's eyes lit up when I mentioned my R9

I'm not sure I can let go of my R9. I want to be among the cynics that say the fingerboard can't make that much difference, but the best LPs that I have played had Brazilian rosewood for fingerboards .... I still regret not buying the R7 braz that I tried back in '03 when they were still cheap, I could have had it new for $1600.

This black S400 is there on consignment and I think I could get a better price than the one listed, but I wouldn't offer more than $6K. Harvey just sold a crimson red Citation for the same seller. Unfortunately, I missed a chance to play the Citation.

I think I would prefer the '76 sunburst S400 that I played in Austin last year. I should be able to pick that up for $7K or less. It is still for sale and the store also has a blonde '76 S400. It would also be a great road trip for the wife and me to go pick it up in person.

I think I have enough neglected solid bodies to raise the money without letting go of my R9.


Then again Rainbow has a very nice Tal Farlow that needs a good home.

Harvey is also selling this koa L5. I think it is on consignment for the same person.

https://reverb.com/item/2048815-gibs...5-ces-koa-2014

The acoustic sound is heavenly. IIRC this koa L5 was discussed on here not too long ago. Wish I had the money for all of these.

While my favorite is a blonde with a Venetian cutaway--I like the black Florentine with the Bigsby--would make for a cool Country guitar in the Travis/Hank Thompson vain. Big difference though between the 11K asking price and the 6K price you mentioned you'd offer. I might have interest around that price, but my only experience with Rainbow (but on a new guitar), is that there wasn't much of a discount from asking price.

[MaxTwang]

While I encourage you to scratch that Super 400 itch, a black S400 with a Bigsby at $10.5k is a tough sell. Better to impress your wife with a vacation and a story about how much money you saved by spending $6k - $7k on a guitar!

[Bluedawg]

While my favorite is a blonde with a Venetian cutaway--I like the black Florentine with the Bigsby--would make for a cool Country guitar in the Travis/Hank Thompson vain. Big difference though between the 11K asking price and the 6K price you mentioned you'd offer. I might have interest around that price, but my only experience with Rainbow (but on a new guitar), is that there wasn't much of a discount from asking price.

Harvey was very good to me on pricing with my L5CES and L5WES that I bought from him new ... if I could sell them at the going advertised rates for used L5s on gbase and reverb I would not lose any money ... of course advertised rates and the actual sell price are not always the same

I'm also local and his discounts for in store buys can be pretty good ... especially when he wants to move something, which is usually the case with archtops

This S400 is on consignment and the owner needs to sell, so there may be more wiggle room than usual. He may not take $6K ... yet ... but I doubt a black S400 with a Bigsby will sell at his asking price and if it is still there in a couple of months he may consider it

With the pricing I've seen for used sunburst and blonde S400s made after 1970 on reverb and gbase I think the guy will have a long long long wait at this price .... the big asking money is usually on the 60s S400s and earlier

The one thing that keeps my interest on this black S400 is that it sounded really great ... but maybe that's normal for S400s

[HeyNow]

There's an 18" Triggs on eBay, if you don't mind P90s.

[stringmaster]

Harvey was very good to me on pricing with my L5CES and L5WES that I bought from him new ... if I could sell them at the going advertised rates for used L5s on gbase and reverb I would not lose any money ... of course advertised rates and the actual sell price are not always the same

I'm also local and his discounts for in store buys can be pretty good ... especially when he wants to move something, which is usually the case with archtops

This S400 is on consignment and the owner needs to sell, so there may be more wiggle room than usual. He may not take $6K ... yet ... but I doubt a black S400 with a Bigsby will sell at his asking price and if it is still there in a couple of months he may consider it

With the pricing I've seen for used sunburst and blonde S400s made after 1970 on reverb and gbase I think the guy will have a long long long wait at this price .... the big asking money is usually on the 60s S400s and earlier

The one thing that keeps my interest on this black S400 is that it sounded really great ... but maybe that's normal for S400s

Thanks. Yes probably more of a 5k something guitar. Wonder if the Bigsby was original--if it's aftermarket then there's gonna be extra mounting holes--making it less desirable/valuable imo.

[wintermoon]

I wouldn't touch that black florentine unless I planned on keeping it forever.
if you had to sell it in the future you'll never get close to that asking price.

just MO....

[Stringswinger]

My mid 90's Super 400 is a superb guitar. Top notch playabilty combined with as pretty a tone as an electric archtop will ever get. Like many Gibson's of the modern era, it is a bit heavy compared to the vintage examples (It weighs 9 pounds, I think most of the 50's and 60's Super 400CES guitars weigh between 7 and 8 pounds).

Like Jabbs said, nothing screams "I am a seriously good jazz guitarist" better than a Super 400. Show up at a jam session, or a gig with seasoned pros with one, and you had better deliver. Expectations are going to be high....

[Bluedawg]

Thanks. Yes probably more of a 5k something guitar. Wonder if the Bigsby was original--if it's aftermarket then there's gonna be extra mounting holes--making it less desirable/valuable imo.

Pretty sure that the Bigsby is factory original. I did not seen any extra holes ... assuming they aren't covered by the Bigsby

I remember this coming through Rainbow new a few months ago with the Bigsby. It was listed as sold as soon as they put it up on their website. I think it was ordered by the customer and not by Harvey for the store.

[Bluedawg]

There's an 18" Triggs on eBay, if you don't mind P90s.

That does look nice


Triggs Custom 18" Archtop Electric Guitar | eBay

[Jabberwocky]

I wouldn't touch that black florentine unless I planned on keeping it forever.
if you had to sell it in the future you'll never get close to that asking price.

just MO....

Yeah, I recall that there was a 2001 Super 400CES Natural with a Florentine cutaway and Kent Armstrong single coil pickups in humbucker housing that Archtop dot com had for sale in 2013. The asking price was $5995. When you consider that archtop dot com was asking $8500 for a similar Super 400CES Natural with Venetian cutaway, that was quite a haircut.

https://www.archtop.com/ac_01_S400CES.html

[Bluedawg]

My mid 90's Super 400 is a superb guitar. Top notch playabilty combined with as pretty a tone as an electric archtop will ever get. Like many Gibson's of the modern era, it is a bit heavy compared to the vintage examples (It weighs 9 pounds, I think most of the 50's and 60's Super 400CES guitars weigh between 7 and 8 pounds).

Like Jabbs said, nothing screams "I am a seriously good jazz guitarist" better than a Super 400. Show up at a jam session, or a gig with seasoned pros with one, and you had better deliver. Expectations are going to be high....

Thanks for the review of your 90s S400



As for showing up at the jam or gig with a Super 400 ...

I guess I'll have to keep my Sweet 16 and 175D around to use on my first few sessions and when I'm comfortable with the situation I'll bring one of my super nice pieces .... LOL

Now if I could only find one of those jam sessions or gigs ... I seem to be playing out mostly on bass lately .. and tonight I'm gigging with my cheap 6 string Gold Tone banjo

[Marty Grass]

I understand that Chris Amato still has one of his late father's twin bucker Super Eagles for sale, the last one.

The last I heard there was one "Super Eagle" left. This is a beautiful guitar, but it is not a full sized Super Eagle. It is more like a 3" L-5 and it has a floater. It is informally called a Super Golden Eagle.

There is a lot already written about this guitar on the forum. Anyone interested should search for more info. A lot went in to building this fellow.

Now back to our regular programming.

[Marty Grass]

I do like the black finish on the Super 400 and the Florentine cutaway. But I do agree that it would be a challenge to resell it.

Black is probably the hardest finish to keep looking good also. It is unforgiving. Natural is the low maintenance option. But when black looks good, it looks real good!

[MaxTwang]

The black is nice but reduces the resale market considerably, the Bigsby brings that market to a few select people. Bluedawg likes the guitar and, at the right price, should own it. But the right price in the current market is substantially less than the asking price.


My S400 is 8lbs 12oz and is without a doubt the best guitar purchase I've made. Just a stunning guitar that is a joy to play and has the most beautiful full & even tone.

[wintermoon]

" But the right price in the current market is substantially less than the asking price."

agreed, about 1/2 imo

[helios]

" I am jonesing for the 1994 S400CES with the single neck humbucker. And I hope it comes up for sale one day. My Grail"

I REALLY like this:


But I could certainly live with this:

[Bluedawg]

" But the right price in the current market is substantially less than the asking price."

agreed, about 1/2 imo

That's what I was thinking

[Bluedawg]

" I am jonesing for the 1994 S400CES with the single neck humbucker. And I hope it comes up for sale one day. My Grail"

I REALLY like this:


But I could certainly live with this:

Absolutely .... which reminds me .... hopefully 2B will show up and provide his input

He's a fan of big guitars

[Cunamara]

Like Jabbs said, nothing screams "I am a seriously good jazz guitarist" better than a Super 400. Show up at a jam session, or a gig with seasoned pros with one, and you had better deliver. Expectations are going to be high....

Hmm. Maybe I'd better start showing up with my Squier Affinity Tele...