Hofner Jazzica for a Peerless Monarch 17"?

**jbucklin** · 06-19-2016, 11:18 AM

I have come to the conclusion that the Hofner is not the sound I'm looking for in a solid spruce-top guitar. With all the raves about Peerless on this forum (and elsewhere) my curiosity has been piqued about the Monarch 17". Any thoughts?

**Jim Soloway** · 06-19-2016, 02:06 PM

Given your experiences with the Hofner I'm going to suggest that you start by taking a different approach this time. Rather than starting by considering specific guitars, start by making a list or inventory of characteristics you want both tonally and physically and then exploring how to get there. Once you have those answers, you can assemble a list of guitars in your price range than check all of the boxes. From there you can pick a guitar with a lot more assurance that you're headed in the right direction.

**mr. beaumont** · 06-19-2016, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by jbucklin

I have come to the conclusion that the Hofner is not the sound I'm looking for in a solid spruce-top guitar. With all the raves about Peerless on this forum (and elsewhere) my curiosity has been piqued about the Monarch 17". Any thoughts?

I agree with Jim.

I also think the Peerless is a BIG step down from the Hofner.

I wish you lived close by, i think 10 minutes tweaking your amp and i can almost guarantee you I could get you that sound you're looking for out of your Jazzica.

**NoReply** · 06-19-2016, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

Given your experiences with the Hofner I'm going to suggest that you start by taking a different approach this time. Rather than starting by considering specific guitars, start by making a list or inventory of characteristics you want both tonally and physically and then exploring how to get there. Once you have those answers, you can assemble a list of guitars in your price range than check all of the boxes. From there you can pick a guitar with a lot more assurance that you're headed in the right direction.

or do what Jim did and call Heritage up, talk to them and have them build you exactly what you want.

**vintagelove** · 06-19-2016, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I agree with Jim.

I also think the Peerless is a BIG step down from the Hofner.

I wish you lived close by, i think 10 minutes tweaking your amp and i can almost guarantee you I could get you that sound you're looking for out of your Jazzica.

Out of curiosity, have you ever played a Monarch? I'm not sure how a guitar can be better? Different, sure... but better?

Action slammed to the board, intonation and tuning is perfect, looks great, nice warm sound. The only thing missing is the Gibson logo I guess...

**jazz.fred** · 06-19-2016, 02:49 PM

Although I am a huge Peerless fan and love my Monarch 16, I have to agree that trading your Jazzica for a Monarch is probably a step in the wrong direction. Swapping out the Hofner for an Imperial or Cremona would represent a better deal. Both sell for around $2400 or so.

I also agree that a Heritage would be an excellent choice.

**2bornot2bop** · 06-19-2016, 02:54 PM

Jazzica hunter

Try a Cremona...you'll dig it!

**Jabberwocky** · 06-19-2016, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by NoReply

or do what Jim did and call Heritage up, talk to them and have them build you exactly what you want.

I think he has a budget to work with. A custom 17" Heritage Golden Eagle would be in excess of $6000, I gather.

How about a plane ticket to Guitars N Jazz and spending a day there? Take your Jazzica along for comparison. GnJ has most of the archtops in your price range.

**2bornot2bop** · 06-19-2016, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

I think he has a budget to work with. A custom 17" Heritage Golden Eagle would be in excess of $6000, I gather.

How about a plane ticket to Guitars N Jazz and spending a day there? Take your Jazzica along for comparison. GnJ has most of the archtops in your price range.

And, G 'n J has Cremona's too...but used they're as low as $1500, priced comparably to a used Jazzica. I'm about to install a Biltoft CC into mine, if for no other reason than curiosity.

**jbucklin** · 06-19-2016, 03:47 PM

Thanks guys for the helpful replies.

I should have made it clear that although I've concluded that the Jazzica may not be the right guitar for me, I haven't decided yet where to go from here.

Just so you'll know, I've made my living playing guitar for 40 years and can't count how many guitars and amps I've had during that time. In addition to live playing I've done quite a bit of studio work here in Dallas. I've also taught guitar for as long, which includes helping serious students find their sound---acting as sort of a "tone consultant". All this to say that tone is my #1 priority as a player, for without a great sound, regardless of instrument, all other aspects of being a musician are superfluous.

I recently sold a Benedetto that I played almost exclusively for 6 years. The reason for selling it was due to the fact that, like the Jazzica, it was inherently bright, something I could not tweak out, hard as I tried. There's that certain point, when rolling back the tone knob, where even a very bright sounding guitar just turns to mud. Why did I play it for so long? It was an awesome instrument! But I finally came to the point where I was ready to move to something that was closer to the sound I've always wanted (think Jim Hall). The main reason for selling the Benedetto was to buy my '59 VOS 175, that had to undergo a couple of pup changes till I got it sounding right.

This brings me back to the guitar under scrutiny in this discussion. All of my tone needs are met with my current stable of archtops. I love everything about the Jazzica except for its sound. I even bought a used Henriksen Jazzamp 110 hoping to utilize its quasi-parametric EQ to dial in an acceptable tone. But alas, the trebly nature of the guitar stubbornly persists, regardless of how I tweak it.

**jbucklin** · 06-19-2016, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop

Jazzica hunter

Try a Cremona...you'll dig it!

I looked at the Cremona. My reason for considering the Monarch is the solid spruce top, something, Jazzica excepted, I don't have. I read that the Cremona has a solid, carved maple top. Can't say that I've ever played a maple-topped archtop that wasn't laminated. I m curious now!

**mr. beaumont** · 06-19-2016, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by vintagelove

Out of curiosity, have you ever played a Monarch? I'm not sure how a guitar can be better? Different, sure... but better?

Action slammed to the board, intonation and tuning is perfect, looks great, nice warm sound. The only thing missing is the Gibson logo I guess...

Have you played Hofner's archtops? The construction is just beautiful. On par with just about anything in the world.

Which trutfully, is only part of the package--tone matters. But the feel and attention to detail of the Honfers is very much like a completely hand made guitar, it's a very noticeable difference.

The Peerless are very nice guitars. I'm only suggesting that sometimes once you get a taste of something (and the OP loves the feel and play of the Jazzica) it's not so easy to go back.

**jbucklin** · 06-19-2016, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Have you played Hofner's archtops? The construction is just beautiful. On par with just about anything in the world.

Which trutfully, is only part of the package--tone matters. But the feel and attention to detail of the Honfers is very much like a completely hand made guitar, it's a very noticeable difference.

These are the things I love about mine. I've searched in vain for the Attila Zoller Signature model. I was hoping the Jazzica would get somewhere close to the sound of the AZ by having a Zoller pickup installed. Whole different animal due to much different construction.

**vintagelove** · 06-19-2016, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Have you played Hofner's archtops? The construction is just beautiful. On par with just about anything in the world.

Which trutfully, is only part of the package--tone matters. But the feel and attention to detail of the Honfers is very much like a completely hand made guitar, it's a very noticeable difference.

The Peerless are very nice guitars. I'm only suggesting that sometimes once you get a taste of something (and the OP loves the feel and play of the Jazzica) it's not so easy to go back.

I'm sure the Hofners are great. But the fact is the OP doesn't like it.

I just find it funny that the only people I ever see knock a Peerless, are those who never played one. Trust me, I own/have owned some very nice instruments. The Peerless is every bit as good as the Gibsons, actually better attention to detail than some, then again, I suppose that isn't saying much...

**jbucklin** · 06-19-2016, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

The Peerless are very nice guitars. I'm only suggesting that sometimes once you get a taste of something (and the OP loves the feel and play of the Jazzica) it's not so easy to go back.

This is of some concern to me. I had the good fortune of finding a 2001 Hofner for a mere $1500! I have been surprised, however, by the all-around quality of the Korean-made D'As, in addition to Ibanez Artstar line of archtops and began to wonder if Peerless was on par with those. Then I found this:

**gezzer** · 06-19-2016, 08:03 PM

Wish I could play a jazzica

**jbucklin** · 06-19-2016, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by gezzer

Wish I could play a jazzica

Sometimes the only way to check out a guitar is to buy it. If you don't like it you sell it and look elsewhere.

So, you wanna check mine out? 😏

**MaxTwang** · 06-19-2016, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by jbucklin

I looked at the Cremona. My reason for considering the Monarch is the solid spruce top, something, Jazzica excepted, I don't have. I read that the Cremona has a solid, carved maple top. Can't say that I've ever played a maple-topped archtop that wasn't laminated. I m curious now!

Heritage H-575 is carved maple top. I've seen them sell used for $1,500 - $2,000. But guitar prices keep getting crazier and crazier, so ....

**jazz.fred** · 06-19-2016, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by jbucklin

This is of some concern to me. I had the good fortune of finding a 2001 Hofner for a mere $1500! I have been surprised, however, by the all-around quality of the Korean-made D'As, in addition to Ibanez Artstar line of archtops and began to wonder if Peerless was on par with those. Then I found this:

IMO Peerless instruments are at least equal to the comparable D'Angelico models and superior to the Ibanez Artstar models.

Out of curiosity, what was your conclusion, having listened to Matt Otten play the Monarch?

**jbucklin** · 06-19-2016, 10:46 PM

My conclusion? The Monarch sounds superb!
Got my eye on one on EBay!

**Jabberwocky** · 06-20-2016, 04:38 AM

You have way more street cred. than I have, jbucklin. Not my place to give you any bit of advice but have you tried darker strings or a different saddle on the Jazzica before giving up on it?

The AZ48 Shadow pickup may just be the wrong pickup for you. It has an inherently bright voice, designed to sound acoustic instead of electric.

Perhaps you should talk to Kent Armstrong or Pete Biltof of Vintage Vibe and let them know what you want in an amplified floating pickup. Seems way more economical than buying a new guitar and selling off a perfectly good one that you like the feel of except that you find its voice bright plugged in.

I would try strings first such as La Bella Black Nylon Tape Flats, a wooden saddle or a Graphtech TOM saddle. I would also get rid of the AZ48 and substitute it with a Kent Armstrong Handmade floating PAF or Pete Biltof could wind you one.

Give the Jazzica a chance. Its 25.25" scale length is nice.

P.S. It is stressful trying to sell off a guitar. Unless you can flip it real quick, it might be best to work with what you have.

**Hammertone** · 06-20-2016, 04:51 AM

So you're loving everything about the Hofner except the generally bright sound of the instrument, thinking about a 17" all-carved archtop to fatten things up…what to do, what to do….

Let's run through a few things here:
-25 1/4" scale - check, no problemo
-16th fret neck body joint - check, no problemo
-feel of the neck - check, no problemo
-overall build quality and hardware - check, no problemo
-24 frets - well, 22 would be better

If only Hofner made the SAME thing but with a 17" body, with a carved top and carved back, 22 frets, 3" rims, floating pickup, that sort of thing. Hey, wait a minute….they do! How about that! They call it the Chancellor!

Goofy name, but a really nice guitar with plenty of warm, fatness - typical attributes of carved 17" archtops. But so hard to find, since they have made so few of them in the past 13 years. Hey, wait a minute... there's one for sale right here on this forum! What are the odds?!

Here:
https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/sale/...in-finish.html

**jazz.fred** · 06-20-2016, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by jbucklin

My conclusion? The Monarch sounds superb!
Got my eye on one on EBay!

Agreed. The Monarchs (both 16" and 17" models) represent an excellent value.

**jbucklin** · 06-20-2016, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Hammertone

If only Hofner made the SAME thing but with a 17" body, with a carved top and carved back, 22 frets, 3" rims, floating pickup, that sort of thing. Hey, wait a minute….they do! How about that! They call it the Chancellor!

Oh Hammertone, how often I have longingly gazed upon your exquisite photos, invoking the high and lofty gods of jazz, that they might summon a sympathetic benefactor to generously supply me with $5000 to make the Chancellor my very own possession!