Wide Nut Archtop Guitars

**DaveLeeNC** · 06-25-2016, 06:47 PM

I mostly play my ES-175D but will sometimes play my classical guitar. My playing style on both is strictly fingerstyle. My playing level is intermediate at best and chord melody best characterizes what I play (sometimes with a walking bass). This is just 'playing for me' and maybe tolerant family members. No gigging.

I find moving between the instruments doable but it seems more awkward than it might be. And most (not all, of course) of that is the change in string spacing near the nut. Spacing at my RH position does not seem to be much of an issue. The string spacing at the nut on the classical is 9/32" wider than the ES-175D. The difference at the RH position is a bit less than half that (and seems not to be a problem).

So the question is does anybody (outside of the custom guitar world) make an archtop guitar with a nut width closer to 2 inches? My sense of things is that the common 1 12/16" is not enough to make a difference, but I don't think you have to get all the way to 2 inches here. Thanks.

dave

**jads57** · 06-25-2016, 11:50 PM

AR4355 Gudelsky archtop 1992 Here's an archtop w/ a 2" width!

**Jabberwocky** · 06-26-2016, 02:29 AM

There was a 60s Gibson L-7C floating around on ebay a few years ago custom-ordered with a 2" nut width. It never sold, if I recall, and was taken down.

Any archtop with a nut width of over 1.75" is a hard sell. So, you mostly won't find archtop guitars with wide nuts. In the steel string flat top world, 1 7/8" is about the widest one can go. At least, that is what C.F. Martin offers. 1 13/16" is still acceptable.

For anything wide, you will have to go the custom route. And then you will find the luthier seriously dissuading you from pursuing the wide nut...Most luthiers don't want their names attached to what might be considered oddball guitars.

**Stringswinger** · 06-26-2016, 02:35 AM

Buy a 7 string archtop. Cut a new 6 string nut and replace the pickup with one that will work with six strings. Lose the seventh string and you have your wide nut archtop.

**Jabberwocky** · 06-26-2016, 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

Buy a 7 string archtop. Cut a new 6 string nut and replace the pickup with one that will work with six strings. Lose the seventh string and you have your wide nut archtop.

Now, why didn't I think of that? That's brilliant lateral thinking, Marco.

New nut, new saddle, new pickup, new tailpiece or maybe not. Voila to the viola.

Steve Holst can make the OP a wide-nut 6-string laminate archtop for about $3200.

**Grez** · 06-26-2016, 11:23 AM

Sorry, you'll most likely need to go custom, but you're not as alone as you might think. Vintage Martin OM28 type finger style players also want archtops that have a familiar neck/string spacing feel to their wide neck acoustics.

**iim7V7IM7** · 06-26-2016, 12:14 PM

It is not just the nut width, it is the string spacing. An archtop with a 1-3/4" nut width will mostly likely have 2-1/16" string spacing wheras a steel string flat top guitar having a 1-3/4" nut width will likely have 2-1/4" to 2-5/16" string spacing.

**wintermoon** · 06-26-2016, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

There was a 60s Gibson L-7C floating around on ebay a few years ago custom-ordered with a 2" nut width. It never sold, if I recall, and was taken down.

Any archtop with a nut width of over 1.75" is a hard sell. So, you mostly won't find archtop guitars with wide nuts. In the steel string flat top world, 1 7/8" is about the widest one can go. At least, that is what C.F. Martin offers. 1 13/16" is still acceptable.

For anything wide, you will have to go the custom route. And then you will find the luthier seriously dissuading you from pursuing the wide nut...Most luthiers don't want their names attached to what might be considered oddball guitars.

that guitar was custom ordered by a guy w/huge hands, and wound up in the collection of a friend of mine w/huge hands
don't know if he still has it but I doubt it, he goes through guitars like candy.

**DaveLeeNC** · 06-26-2016, 05:46 PM

Thanks to all for the info/perspective/suggestions. This is mostly just idle/speculative thinking.

My sense of things is simply that a guitar (at least for the music that I try to play) is easier to play with slightly wider string spacing. But I wonder if I am simply wrong given the apparent zero demand for such things in archtop land. And maybe this is simply because much of my learning was on a classical guitar, so it is just what I got used to.

dave

**Jehu** · 06-26-2016, 06:20 PM

A big part of the feel of a classical is the flat fingerboard. Have you tried an archtop with a flatter radius (e.g., Godin 5th ave line)?

**Stringswinger** · 06-26-2016, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

Now, why didn't I think of that? That's brilliant lateral thinking, Marco.

New nut, new saddle, new pickup, new tailpiece or maybe not. Voila to the viola.

Steve Holst can make the OP a wide-nut 6-string laminate archtop for about $3200.

Actually, you can sand the saddle and re slot it if it is wood.

**Woody Sound** · 06-26-2016, 08:16 PM

Now THAT'S clever.

**DaveLeeNC** · 06-26-2016, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by Jehu

A big part of the feel of a classical is the flat fingerboard. Have you tried an archtop with a flatter radius (e.g., Godin 5th ave line)?

I haven't done that. My sense of things is the width is the key (to me), but fingerboard radius is hardly unimportant.

I am a long way from actually doing something along these lines, but I am keenly aware of the fact that if I were to procure some custom 1 15/16" wide nut archtop, I damn well better like it. Because I suspect that no one else in the world will.

dave

**Bluedawg** · 06-27-2016, 12:42 AM

I picked up a used Campellone 18 inch acoustic archtop last year with a 1 13/16 inch nut from Folkway music in Toronto last year .... it plays lovely and the extra width comes in nice if I'm trying to go for some Ted Greene fingerings

Apparently there's a fellow guitar nut in the Toronto area that custom orders his guitars with wide fingerboards

This Oskar Graf my have been one of his, it has a 1 3/4 inch nut

2002 Oskar Graf 16" Archtop Guitar | Folkway Music, Vintage and New Guitars, Guelph and Waterloo, Ontario Canada

A little rich for my blood, though and I already have a nice 16 inch Sweet 16 that I'm quite happy with

Keep your eye on Folkway music or even give them a call to see if any of his other guitars are on the block

They know how to get a guitar into the US from Canada without any hassles

**Bobby Marshall** · 06-27-2016, 01:08 AM

You wouldn't need to replace the pickup if you get a 7 string and convert to six string. Just the nut and bridge. Hope you find the right instrument.

**Stringswinger** · 06-27-2016, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by Bobby Marshall

You wouldn't need to replace the pickup if you get a 7 string and convert to six string. Just the nut and bridge. Hope you find the right instrument.

If the pickup has pole pieces for seven strings, it would have to be replaced. If it is a bar maget type, like a Benedetto, it will do fine with a conversion to six strings.

**artcore** · 06-27-2016, 07:51 AM

you just described me....what you are looking for...I was fortunate to find....Jim Soloways fingerstyle spacing guitar...He doesn't make them now...They are wonderful and will improve your comfort and playing in a big way.......I found mine on E-bay.....they don't come up often.....just keep looking.....they are out there......the quality is top of the line.....I was able to get mine just over 1k....but had I known what they were, I would have paid more.......anyway...I looked into a number of builders, didn't come up with very much.....also a guy had a tele on e-bay a few years back that had a wide neck...I forget the name of the neck....they are available.....almost went for it.....I wish you good luck.....keep looking, you will find the right guitar.....

**DaveLeeNC** · 06-27-2016, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by artcore

you just described me....what you are looking for...I was fortunate to find....Jim Soloways fingerstyle spacing guitar...He doesn't make them now...They are wonderful and will improve your comfort and playing in a big way.......I found mine on E-bay.....they don't come up often.....just keep looking.....they are out there......the quality is top of the line.....I was able to get mine just over 1k....but had I known what they were, I would have paid more.......anyway...I looked into a number of builders, didn't come up with very much.....also a guy had a tele on e-bay a few years back that had a wide neck...I forget the name of the neck....they are available.....almost went for it.....I wish you good luck.....keep looking, you will find the right guitar.....

That is very interesting. And it looks like Jim Soloway isn't making anything right now :-(

My instincts were that I really needed to get wider than just 1/8 inch wider than what I have right now (his wide version is 1 13/16 vs 1 11/16 on my ES-175D) as that is 1/8 inch where the difference that I experience between my two guitars is a bit over 1/4 inch. But maybe not and I believe that the occasional acoustic (steel string) guitar is built with that spacing so provides something that I could try out.

Thanks for the info.

dave

**DaveLeeNC** · 06-27-2016, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by Bluedawg

I picked up a used Campellone 18 inch acoustic archtop last year with a 1 13/16 inch nut from Folkway music in Toronto last year .... it plays lovely and the extra width comes in nice if I'm trying to go for some Ted Greene fingerings

Apparently there's a fellow guitar nut in the Toronto area that custom orders his guitars with wide fingerboards

This Oskar Graf my have been one of his, it has a 1 3/4 inch nut

2002 Oskar Graf 16" Archtop Guitar | Folkway Music, Vintage and New Guitars, Guelph and Waterloo, Ontario Canada

A little rich for my blood, though and I already have a nice 16 inch Sweet 16 that I'm quite happy with

Keep your eye on Folkway music or even give them a call to see if any of his other guitars are on the block

They know how to get a guitar into the US from Canada without any hassles

Or maybe I should be looking to the U.K. to take advantage of the 'new' exchange rates post-Brexit vote :-)

Thanks for the info regarding Folkway.

dave

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 06-27-2016, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC

Or maybe I should be looking to the U.K. to take advantage of the 'new' exchange rates post-Brexit vote :-)

Ouch!

**Bluedawg** · 06-27-2016, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC

Or maybe I should be looking to the U.K. to take advantage of the 'new' exchange rates post-Brexit vote :-)

Thanks for the info regarding Folkway.

dave

Who knows ... maybe the UK will join NAFTA in the not too distant future

**Stringswinger** · 06-27-2016, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Bluedawg

Who knows ... maybe the UK will join NAFTA in the not too distant future

We should dump Mexico and add Britain, Australia and New Zealand to NAFTA. Labor and the enviornment would win. As far a guitars go, we would lose out on cheap Fenders, but we would gain on duty free guitars from some excellent British and Aussie luthiers.

**DaveLeeNC** · 06-27-2016, 11:58 AM

FWIW, here is an interesting discussion on wider nuts - mostly focused on solidbody guitars, however.

Interesting, regardless.

dave

http://tinyurl.com/j2w64g4

**ronjazz** · 06-27-2016, 01:02 PM

A 1 3/4" nut width can actually be enough if you get a new nut recut with wider spacing, that's my solution for switching from classical to archtop, works great. Another option is an electric 12-string.

**DaveLeeNC** · 06-27-2016, 01:35 PM

An additional comment here. I just did a quick measurement and the string spacing (outside edges) on my ES-175 at fret 7 vs. fret 1 is roughly 43.3 mm vs. 38.2 mm (eyeballing stuff on cheap mechanical calipers). So my fingers are already used to string spacing changes (for the same chord form) on the order of a quarter inch.

I might be over-interpreting the cause of a somewhat difficult transition from my archtop to classical. However, it still seems like for me 1 11/16" is too narrow for my playing (and normal size fingers).

dave