Fender 65 Twin Reverb RI / 65 Deluxe Reverb RI

[Little Jay]

Yeah sure casters! My Twin already came with those.

[jorgemg1984]

Look around for a used Music Man 112. I believe they made them in 50W, 65W and 100W configs. I had the 65W version and it was awesome.

I tried one, great amp but I would like to see tube preamp and ss power amp instead of the ss preamp tube power amp of the MM

[jbucklin]

I have a herniated disc due to owning and schlepping several Twins back in the 70s. The problem with casters, dollies, luggage carts, etc. is they don't lift amps in and out your vehicle! The difference in weight between the Twin and Deluxe is around 30 lbs., albeit my DRRI gained some weight after installing the Celestion Gold speaker. Still, nowhere near the weight of a Twin Reverb.

Out of curiosity, are the aforementioned Music Man amps as heavy?

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I have a herniated disc due to owning and schlepping several Twins back in the 70s. The problem with casters, dollies, luggage carts, etc. is they don't lift amps in and out your vehicle! The difference in weight between the Twin and Deluxe is around 30 lbs., albeit my DRRI gained some weight after installing the Celestion Gold speaker. Still, nowhere near the weight of a Twin Reverb.

Out of curiosity, are the aforementioned Music Man amps as heavy?

The original Music Man amps are boat anchors. It's worth noting that they just reissued new versions of some of these MM amps, designed by the man behind MarkBass, and they are quite a bit lighter.

[Woody Sound]

The original Music Man amps are boat anchors. It's worth noting that they just reissued new versions of some of these MM amps, designed by the man behind MarkBass, and they are quite a bit lighter.

Yup, 26lbs.

[Herbie]

All the boutique amp makers are not in US and not too expensive.

In a Finnish Bluetone Black Face Reverb amp You will have a sum of best things of Blackface Fenders in PTP hand wired package for half of the vintage price. Many custom possibilities according to Your wishes. Not too much weight and enough power.

And I suppose Harry Kneckt can help You with Your mother language!

Bluetone » Black Face Reverb

(No affiliation, only living in same country!)

[Thumpalumpacus]

I call 1x12" + 2x6L6 combos "half twins". Is Peavey available in the OP's Sweden? If so, consider a Peavey ValveKing II 50. 50W, 19kg.

It's not booteek, it's a working man's amp, $600 new, less used.

Peavey ValveKing II 50 50W 1x12 Tube Guitar Combo Amp Black | Musician's Friend


There's also the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, but it seems not to get much love. Any fans of it here?

I had an original ValveKing 2x12 that got great loud cleans up to about four on that channel (beond that was a cool tactile grind, but not useful for jazz), and good grit on the dirty channel -- I loved it. But at almost 70 lbs, it was hard on this middle-aged frame. I haven't played the newer VKs but if they carried forward the design ethos with the new add-ons, they could work. I'm looking at buying a VKII 20MH, hoping to cover a lot of ground with it. Don't care much for small bottles, and they sure aren't much for headroom.

I'm thinking the OP might do well to consider SS, unless he wants to tote around a Twin (my back got sore writing that sentence). Even with a dolly, you've got to put it in the truck ...

[Frank67]

IMHO for a small venue a Deluxe and even a Princeton is enough. I've just witnessed that in New York jazzclubs. The drummer wasn't hitting hard, the bass was unamplified and the guitarists all played through the same Princeton - just fine. For somewhat larger venues there will have to be a PA and the you can mic the amp or use a Kemper or similar devices to get a great sound to the audience.

Hence, I see no real need for big heavy loud amps anymore. Dont't take me wrong - I like my twin as much as the next person, but ever since I got the Kemper I so have no desire to haul it around. The Kemper (or similar devices) with a powered speaker can fill significant rooms even without a PA. Yesterday we were playing a pretty loud rock gig and the Kemper with a Bose L1 compact would have been enough to fill a party tent made for 300 guests without even turning it up more than halfway ... And sounding great.

[jbucklin]

Not sure, but I think Qreedence (the OP) has left the building.

[Jazz_175]

Well, I have to say that after putting an nos 5751 tube (in v2) and a Celestion Alnico Gold speaker in my DRRI I will never need to look elsewhere for the ultimate clean tone. If you decide to go for the less expensive, and much lighter, Deluxe--- spend a little more for upgrades and save your back!

What did you achieve with those two modifications?

[jbucklin]

What did you achieve with those two modifications?

Although the 5751 causes a decrease in volume, it adds warmth to the sound which is much better suited to playing jazz. The Celestion Gold is probably the greatest speaker ever produced for guitar amps. A very hi fi driver that needs to be experienced to believe---a jazz-player's dream speaker. Rated at 50 watts, it is super-efficient and makes up for the loss of volume from the 5751.

One thing I forgot to mention is I had the bright cap removed from the circuit. The DRRI is now my perfect jazz amp.

[Little Jay]

I put a pair of RCA 5751 in V1 and V2 in mij Twin and those tubes sound really good in there indeed! A slight decrease of gain/volume (but really really slight) but mostly a very nice and a bit darker tone. Those tubes are just classy!

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

y

I had an original ValveKing 2x12 that got great loud cleans up to about four on that channel (beond that was a cool tactile grind, but not useful for jazz), and good grit on the dirty channel -- I loved it. But at almost 70 lbs, it' was hard on this middle-aged frame. I haven't played the newer VKs but if they carried forward the design ethos with the new add-ons, they could work. I'm looking at buying a VKII 20MH, hoping to cover a lot of ground with it. Don't care much for small bottles, and they sure aren't much for headroom.

I'm thinking the OP might do well to consider SS, unless he wants to tote around a Twin (my back got sore writing that sentence). Even with a dolly, you've got to put it in the truck ...

There is an original ValveKing 212 for sale near me, but I was hoping it was more like a Twin. If it's only clean up to four, I don't know. I'm regretting I didn't jump on a 80s Peavey Stereo Chorus.

[Greentone]

The whole business of being clean up to 4 has to do with the audio taper volume potentiometers. By 4 most Fender amps are operating at nearly full undistorted power--85 watts in the case of a Twin Reverb amp. After that, distortion (and power) increase. I don't know how much output power a Twin at full cry puts out--probably something like 125-150 watts. However, the total harmonic distortion at that power output level is probably at 20% or more. The 85-watt rating is probably at between 5-10% distortion (which is pretty clean for a musical instrument _tube_ amplifier). Since the distortion is going to be mostly even-order harmonic distortion, 5% will be unnoticeable in a tube amp.

I will bet that this power rating is achieved at around 4 or 5 on the volume dial. On an Ampeg or a Polytone, however, this wouldn't happen until about 8. That's because those amps use linear taper pots on the volume. IIRC correctly, only the Showman among the old tube amp line had a linear volume pot in the Fender amp line. People (me included) used to regard the Showman as loud and clean. Loud? You betcha. Clean? In part, this is due to the fact that the power comes on more slowly with the Showman. "5" is half power, etc. (After about 1965, the Showman was just a Twin Reverb stuffed into a amp head chassis, but without reverb. So, you may not notice any differences between it and the audio taper Twin Reverb. The earlier ones, though, were quite different beasts.)

[nopedals]

Many of the posts on this thread mirror my experience when playing in a rock band years ago, The DR was not quite enough. A brown super was the smallest amp that worked in all club situations I encountered. The tweed super would not. The tweed bassman could handle outdoor shows as well.

[jbucklin]

Yep, back in my rock days, many moons ago in the 70s, it was a Twin or Super cranked to 10--- no pedals! Freakin' LOUD!!!

[neatomic]

this should do the trick



super twin reverbs were 180 watts! & clean!! ultra-linear design...pedal steel guys love 'em

cheers

[jbucklin]

I hated Nugent until I saw him play live in '77. It was loud, raw, and pretty amazing. I remember that wall of Fenders and the Byrdland. I was pleasantly surprised by the great performance he gave.

[Thumpalumpacus]

There is an original ValveKing 212 for sale near me, but I was hoping it was more like a Twin. If it's only clean up to four, I don't know. I'm regretting I didn't jump on a 80s Peavey Stereo Chorus.

Four was plenty loud for small-room gigs. Two twelves push a bit of air, and as Greeny points out, somewhere in that middle-of-the-dial range, you're not adding volume (except perhaps some apparent volume by dint of distortion usually happening in the bass and low-mids first), but simply distortion. I still don't think it would be the ideal jazz gigger; you can get the same volume cleans out of a smaller amp, either tube or SS, and save your back. When I was a kid, I was happy to hand-jack a half-stack into a gig, cab in one hand, head in another. By 42, when I got that VK, my next music-accessory purchase was ... you guessed it, a dolly.

A VK212 for a jazz gig is like hunting flies with a sledgehammer. Great rock amp (epsecially with replacement speakers if you play metal), great blues amp because of that clean channel, but really too much for a small room gig, and too gritty for a large-room gig. Not getting it was most likely a good decision on your part. My humble opinion, of course.

[JazzNote]

I hated Nugent until I saw him play live in '77. It was loud, raw, and pretty amazing. I remember that wall of Fenders and the Byrdland. I was pleasantly surprised by the great performance he gave.

I saw him in 77 in the Hammersmith Odeon in London but felt that i could not define the music because it was too loud. At the time he had his thing about "if you think it's too loud then you are too old". I was 21 at the time - so who was he really playing for? But i was impressed that he could at all handle his Birdland in this "infernal noise".

[Little Jay]

Yup, 26lbs.

Wow! I checked the Music Man site. They have Neo speakers inside so that's mainly what keeps the weigth down: 26 lbs/11,9 kgs is almost nothing for a 50W amp! I see they differ a bit from the original design: the pre-amp tube is in de drive channel only, while in the old Music Man amps the early models had 1 preamp tube functioning as the phase inverter.

I have not played one of the RIs, but their specs on paper are pretty impressive! (So is their price, btw!!).

Another contender could be Award Session's BluesBaby 45: Award-Session website, BluesBaby 22, BluesBaby 45, Guitar Amp, Session

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Four was plenty loud for small-room gigs. Two twelves push a bit of air, and as Greeny points out, somewhere in that middle-of-the-dial range, you're not adding volume (except perhaps some apparent volume by dint of distortion usually happening in the bass and low-mids first), but simply distortion. I still don't think it would be the ideal jazz gigger; you can get the same volume cleans out of a smaller amp, either tube or SS, and save your back. When I was a kid, I was happy to hand-jack a half-stack into a gig, cab in one hand, head in another. By 42, when I got that VK, my next music-accessory purchase was ... you guessed it, a dolly.

A VK212 for a jazz gig is like hunting flies with a sledgehammer. Great rock amp (epsecially with replacement speakers if you play metal), great blues amp because of that clean channel, but really too much for a small room gig, and too gritty for a large-room gig. Not getting it was most likely a good decision on your part. My humble opinion, of course.

What would you recommend? I've been hankering for a 2x12" combo since I've never had one. I'm looking for a clean amp since I can get dirt from a pedal for blues/fusion. I'd be happy with a SS amp and I'm looking for used.

Folks say used JC-120s are like buses, one comes round every 10 minutes, but I haven't seen that on the online classifieds around me. Like I said, there was a Peavey Stereo Chorus 400, but I waffled on it.

[Qreedence]

Thanks for all the replies, definitely appreciate all the opinions and experiences but I've been out of town for the weekend so I haven't been able to check in until now.

To answer some questions, I've been using a Peavey Classic 30, which has definitely been working as far as volume goes (how does the Deluxe Reverb compare? My local music store doesn't have one in the shop, so I would have to order it if I were to buy it), but I'm not quite satisfied with the tone. I play in a quartet with drums, bass and saxophone, so my main concern with the "hair" on the Deluxe Reverb would be that my comping would get muddy. I don't mind a little dirt while soloing.

The Deluxe Reverb is what I'm leaning towards at the moment though, because I think if I'm playing a room that would require a lot of volume, there would probably be a PA?

[Herbie]

And talking about languages: here is a english speaking link to universal Blackface amp, not too heavy, not too expensive, enough power:

BluetoneBluetone Black Face Reverb

All the boutique amp makers are not in US and not too expensive.

In a Finnish Bluetone Black Face Reverb amp You will have a sum of best things of Blackface Fenders in PTP hand wired package for half of the vintage price. Many custom possibilities according to Your wishes. Not too much weight and enough power.

And I suppose Harry Kneckt can help You with Your mother language!

Bluetone » Black Face Reverb

(No affiliation, only living in same country!)

[Little Jay]

And talking about languages: here is a english speaking link to universal Blackface amp, not too heavy, not too expensive, enough power:

BluetoneBluetone Black Face Reverb

Not too expensive?!? Your gigs must pay better than mine......

:-D