Speaker choice confusion

[Guido_59]

Finally I have bright Quilter 101 mini head and for the moment I use it at home with the can of the old '80s Roland Cube chorus 430x430x250 mm about that is 60 watt 12"
I would upgrade it and from about a month I look for a new speaker .
Start from Celestion classic lead80 and BN12-300s, Quilter use these, I listen demo of other EV EML12 ,WGS12L , EMINENECE DELTA PRO 12A, CELESTION ALNICO CREAM , CELESTION G12K100 and many other in tube.
The results are a lot of confusion in my head.
Genre of music jazz primary and after blues.
Better linear speaker like EV EML12 or clone? Bass speaker like BN12-300s ?
Qui someone says that alnico Speaker is not good for jazz ?
Can you give some help ?
if you have a sample can you give me to listen
Thanks from a confused italian guitarist
Bye

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Since the 101 Mini Head puts out up to 100W, you want a speaker rated for at least that (maybe more to be safe).

I've never heard the claim that AlNiCo speakers are bad for jazz -- a lot of jazz has been played on them!

beyond that, I too am confused by all the speaker choices!

[Woody Sound]

Guido, I am a little confused. Are you going to replace the speaker in the Roland, and use that cab with the Quilter?

Regardless, at my age I am much more concerned with a speaker's efficiency and weight, than the little subtle nuance differences. Besides, I think the cabinet is much more important than the speaker itself (when considering *similar* speakers).

For weight relief, I put a Lil Texas into my Quilter MP200. It sounds ok, because that cabinet is, well, just ok. In one of my Raezer's Edge 12-ER's I put in the Eminence you mentioned, again for weight relief. When I plug the Quilter into that it sounds GLORIOUS. Primarily because that cabinet sounds glorious. When I switched the 2 speakers around, the RE cab STILL sounded fabulous with the Lil Texas compared to the Quilter built-in cab with the Eminence.

As James Carville supposedly once said, "It's the Cabinet, stupid!" Just some food for thought, just my opinion.

[Guido_59]

Yes i would use the old cab with 101
101 is 100w only in two setting and I'll never use it at Max.
The sound of Alnico Cream is good for me and and similar to V30 and Creamback.
It's rated 90w near to 101 Max out and if i remember well Celestion is under.rated.
Only one cons it is more expensive, about 270 euro double of Celestion classic lead 80 and BN12-300s for example
A most important think for me ha that must ne react and sound good also at low level at home
I'm waiting another suggests

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[Woody Sound]

Yes i would use the old cab with 101
101 is 100w only in two setting and I'll never use it at Max.
The sound of Alnico Cream is good for me and and similar to V30 and Creamback.
It's rated 90w near to 101 Max out and if i remember well Celestion is under.rated.
Only one cons it is more expensive, about 270 euro double of Celestion classic lead 80 and BN12-300s for example
A most important think for me ha that must ne react and sound good also at low level at home
I'm waiting another suggests

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See my additional edit in my previous post, re the cabinet.

[Guido_59]

Thanks Woody Sound
When you have modified post I was in my doctor for a visit.
Now I have read . So you have put Eminence DELTA pro 12A in your cabinet and are sounds good , only for jazz or also other like bluies ?
My cab would be the old Roland cab like this


misure about 15.5 x 17.5 x 11 inches
Are right for use I want or not ?
Don.t you like Alnico speaker except for weight and cost ? Eminence delat rpo 12a it' better then Celestion BN!"-300s ?

[neatomic]

celestion alnico golds and creams are great speakers..gold might be rated a bit low for your power, but cream is perfect..one of the best speakers on the market...handles power, efficient, has deep but tight low end and upper mid chime and clarity..


i've recommended the golds to a few guys here, who bought them and were very happy!

cheers

[Guido_59]

Thanks
Delta pro 12a ( like for its linearity ) cost in Europe about 200 € ( 225$ ) and Alcino Cream ( like for its vintage sound ) cost 290 € ( 326 $ )
There is 100 $ of difference !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If my cab would be right , for me Emience delta pro 12 a would be the right choice , don't you think ?

[neatomic]

the delta pro is eminences take on the ev speaker...very large heavy ferrite magnet..takes lots of power and stays clean over the entire spectrum...a nice speaker..especially in thiele/ported cabs

the celestion alnico 12 is an alnico speaker..also fairly transparent but with a little less low end boom than an ev..the celestion bass is tighter yet as deep..also the celestion has a bit of chime on top

both good, but the celestion is in another class

cheers

[neatomic]

ps-might want to look at a european made speaker..beyma from spain..the liberty 8..like an old e series jbl

also make sure you determine that the speaker impedence matches your amp

cheers

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

also make sure you determine that the speaker impedence matches your amp

Good point. I believe the 101 has a 4 Ohm minimum. Having a 4 Ohm speaker would be nice because then you would be getting the maximum watts out of the amp, but there aren't that many 4 Ohm speakers. Maybe the Eminence EPS-12C?

[jorgemg1984]

If you can afford the price and weight, the EV is an incredible speaker for jazz.

[Guido_59]

Thanks all guys.
How I had say before it is important that the speaker is efficient to sound good also at low level , example at minum setting of 101 at home in my bedroom ,and stay clean at high level.
Delta pro has non magnet , then it sounds good only at high level or I don't have understand well?
I would to buy Delta for feauture price and weight of has this feature

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[r_cc_c]

I tried Eminence Delta 12A, Delta Pro 12A and Deltalite 2512.

Delta 12a sound the best for jazz
Deltalite 2512 sounded very similar to Delta 12a but sounded more ringy.
Delta Pro 12a does not sound as lively as Delta 12a

If you can find a polytone 12" speaker, that to me is the best so far.
Celestion G12-T75 sounded pretty good for jazz, too.

In all these test, I was using various clean amp to drive the speakers, Acoustic Image, Carvin BX250, Stewart Audio.

[Guido_59]

Thanks r_cc_c
Excuse mi English , do you mean that Delta 12a has more high freq and more brilliant than Delta pro 12a ? For jazz it is not better than high freq is a little bit attenuated? The fifference between Delta 12a and Delta pro 12a is really audible ?
Delta 12a rated 5 khz and Delta pro 12a for 4,5 khz.
I know many jazz Player who prefer a neutral speaker ad possible to reproduce with more possible accuracy the sound of instrument played in acoustic

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[Guido_59]

I just have look side by side t.o the two graph chart and it is very similar
Maybe Delta pro 12a is more linear and has more high level in bass and mid freq and a low peak between 1.5 and 4.5 khz than Delta 12a
Is it only my impression or it is true ?

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[Woody Sound]

[QUOTE=Guido_59;690268]Thanks Woody Sound. So you have put Eminence DELTA pro 12A in your cabinet and are sounds good , only for jazz or also other like bluies ?

Sorry, I meant the Celestion BN, not the Emi. Total brain fart.

[Guido_59]

No problem Woody I have often problem to understand your answer because my English is not good
If I understand well ,this time, you mean that Eminence delta pro 12a in Raezer's Edge 12-ER's cab and it sound better then standard Quilter cab with BN!2-300s, right ?
What genre of music you play with Eminence Delta pro 12
If I remember well Evans AMps use in thier combo and cabs spekear of Eminence Delta series but don't pro series or normal

[guy8string]

Disclaimers/Caveats: 1.) I play a different instrument than most here (electric mandolin). 2.) I don't have a decades-long relationship with amplifiers. 3.) I am a classically trained woodwind player, so while I may not discern some of the musical nuances you hear, I do actually have a decent ear.

I have a Mini 101 driving a Mojotone Lite cab loaded with an Eminence 12" Lil' Texas. The combination is lively, articulate, and accurate with a wide variety of tonal shapes. When I play my 8-string acoustic-electric, I set the amp's eq flat. The sounds from the amp/speaker are full and articulate with no appreciable gain or loss in the mids. I find I can achieve a pleasing tone very quickly whether I am using my acoustic-electric or my humbucked 5-string. The amp/cab has a dead quiet noise floor, and I also really like how the amp/cab responds to pedals. I would purchase this same light (<20lbs total weight), musical rig again in heartbeat.

[r_cc_c]

Thanks r_cc_c
Excuse mi English , do you mean that Delta 12a has more high freq and more brilliant than Delta pro 12a ? For jazz it is not better than high freq is a little bit attenuated? The fifference between Delta 12a and Delta pro 12a is really audible ?
Delta 12a rated 5 khz and Delta pro 12a for 4,5 khz.
I know many jazz Player who prefer a neutral speaker ad possible to reproduce with more possible accuracy the sound of instrument played in acoustic

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first of all, the info I offered is based on my personal preference and actual experience. I went through a long search of the ideal single 12" speaker to achieve my favorite sound, Pat Martino Live at Yoshi's, Joe Pass Joy Spring, and George Benson.

I started with delta pro 12a with the exact same thinking basing on Its flat freq response. I wasn't satisfied and switch to delta 12a and its seem to sound right.

delta pro 12a is design for higher power. Its magnet is huge. Impulse response is much better. I found this is actually make the guitar sound leaner due to a quicker low frequency decay.

The delta 12a sounded closer to a guitar speaker.

many also favor the Beta 12 but I don't have any experience with it.

Happy shopping!!






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[Guido_59]

Joe Pass and Pat Martino Teo of my favorite toghether Per Metheny and Jim Hall.
Delta 12a has minor B andwidth in high 4 khz insted 4.5 khz of pro so don't sound a little bit dark ?
Is it suitable also for blues ?
I know it is difficult choice of amo bit the choice of speaker it is more more difficult
Someone suggest me Jensen neo tornado do you know it ?

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[Woody Sound]

No problem Woody I have often problem to understand your answer because my English is not good
If I understand well ,this time, you mean that Eminence delta pro 12a in [COLOR=#333333]Raezer's Edge 12-ER's cab and it sound better then standard Quilter cab with BN!2-300s, right ?

No. I replaced the Emi Delta in the RE with the Celestion BN. Strictly for weight.

[Guido_59]

Sorry there was a mistake .
I have confused feautures of Delta 12a with Beta !
Delta 12a has B andwidth 54 hz to 5 KHz so la effectly more useful for guitar .
I look also for this
It cosr only 90 euro cons 140 of Delta pro
Not expensive, well !

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[Guido_59]

No. I replaced the Emi Delta in the RE with the Celestion BN. Strictly for weight.

I see Now !
In term of sound it is better ?
Wherr ? Bass, mids, highs , definition clarity or what ?

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[r_cc_c]

I have a Fender Jazz Ultralight guitar cabinet.
It houses a Jensen Neo 12" 2 ohm speaker with dark green paint.
Tornado 12" is painted black and it is 8 ohm.
I don't see the green neo 12 on Jensen's website any more.
If you are able to dig up the old spec sheet, I bet the tornado and the neo are similar.
Likely a re-branding.

Here you go. Neo 12 spec

Jensen Neo Series speakers - Jensen Neo12-100 12" speaker has a lightweight neodymium magnet. Great for guitar and bass cabinets. 8 ohms only.

Tornado 12

https://www.jensentone.com/jet_series/tornado_12

Although this is not my favorite cabinet, it does produce a good Fender-ish Jazz guitar sound (Twin).
Brighter than the Delta. Still very bassy.
The Fender Ultralight cabinet is built with birch and the resonance give it a woody sound.

Remember the dialing of Tone Knob on the guitar make huge difference on the guitar sound.
Finding that sweet spot makes a big difference too.
My tone knob never go pass the mid point.
You can imagine the sound I am looking for.

Here is an early thread which I talked about my DIY cabinet journey.

DIY Jazz Guitar Cabinet 8"