Pickup Options for an Acoustic Jumbo...

**snoskier63** · 09-24-2016, 08:19 PM

I recently bought a 2011 Guild F-50. This guitar was built in New Hartford, and as such is a very light, and very responsive guitar. I am looking to put a pickup in it, and it has to be something that sounds natural without any hint of quack. That pretty much rules out under the saddle pickups, and leaves sound-hole pickups or internal microphones like the LR Bags Lyric. Does anyone here use a newer Guild F-50 or similar light jumbo in which a pickup was added? If so, which pickup, and how is that pickup working?

Thanks!

**Stringswinger** · 09-24-2016, 09:16 PM

I had a Guild F-50 and used a passive Baggs M-1 with fine results. My guitar was an older Westerly build. The guitar is long gone but I still have the pickup. PM me if you have an interest. I will make you a super deal.

**snoskier63** · 09-24-2016, 09:50 PM

Thanks for the offer. The thing I'm concerned with regarding magnetic pickups is that I use Thomastik-Infeld Plectrum strings, which are brass coated (the unwound strings). Brass is non-conductive, so those strings may not be amplified properly.

**morroben** · 09-24-2016, 09:54 PM

I use the M-1A which is the active version of the Baggs that Stringswinger mentioned. I absolutely love it. I would expect good results from the passive as well. Hard to go wrong with LR Baggs. They're semi-local to me, and I've been down to their "factory", which is really just a couple of stalls of commercial space. They're nice people and you can tell that they take pride in their work. It's the kind of place I like to spend my money with. Good luck in your search.

edit:Woops, I was typing when you posted about the strings. Not sure what the best product would be for that. I would call LR Baggs directly and ask. They would know better than anyone.

**Stringswinger** · 09-25-2016, 02:04 AM

The Baggs pups have adjustable pole pieces, so I bet they work just fine with bronze strings.

**rlrhett** · 09-25-2016, 03:17 AM

The K&K soundboard transducers have a very faithful acoustic sound with none of that under saddle quackery. They also don't care what strings you have on. Lots on Youtube for a sense of the sound.

That said, they are not particularly feedback resistant.

**rabbit** · 09-25-2016, 03:30 AM

Trance Audio - Professional Clients

Don't know much but I heard one in a late model J-45 & it sounded pretty good.

I didn't get to play/play with it. Good luck to you.

**Flat** · 09-25-2016, 03:43 AM

I love the acoustic guitar sounds Jackson Browne gets with his Trance setups for his Smecks and other vintage acoustics, but I've got the more affordable K&K three-contact pickups in my D-28, and I think it sounds really quite good. Natural sound (imho), definitely no quack. I can imagine that feedback might be a problem in a loud situation, but don't really know.

**snoskier63** · 09-25-2016, 12:09 PM

The Trance Audio Amulet and the LR Bags Lyric both sound pretty good. One demo of the Lyric by Ricky Scaggs stated that it was very resistant to feedback while another said it was much less resistant than expected. Perhaps there are installation considerations? I haven't heard how the Amulet handles feedback, but Jackson Brown plays some big venues and it works for him, so I'm assuming it's a non-issue for me and for most others.

**Chazmo** · 09-26-2016, 10:11 AM

+1 on K&K Pure Mini for flattops. Easy to install yourself--I've done it on a couple of guitars--and it sounds like a mic. No preamp necessarily required, although you may want one to shape your sound.

I wish their pickups for acoustic archtops worked as well. I've never had great luck with the Pure Archtop or Definity pickups.

**Jabberwocky** · 09-26-2016, 12:01 PM

Bartlett Audio Guitar Mike is a condensor microphone employed clipped under the soundhole. Worth a consideration.

Bartlett Guitar Mic B - Bartlett Audio

Nota Bene: the Cello Mic works better if you downtune, play a 7-string or baritone.

**snoskier63** · 09-26-2016, 06:54 PM

In checking out the Bartlett setup I came across some videos that sound great, but there does not appear (unless I missed something) to be a permanent installation option where everything is internal and only a chord between the end pin jack and standard acoustic amp is needed. I emailed Bartlett for more details on their offerings.

**snoskier63** · 09-28-2016, 08:15 AM

I've been in contact with Bruce from Bartlett Audio regarding options. He can custom make me an end pin version in which the microphone would connect internally to the end pin. From the end pin I would then connect to a battery box on my belt or strap, and from there to an amp (phantom power not needed). Bruce can do this for $215, which is reasonable based on the cost of a production version. I think I will order this.

Thanks to all for the great suggestions. There are a lot of great options out there, and several that I'm sure I could easily use.

**sgosnell** · 09-28-2016, 09:48 AM

The brass coating on the plain strings is so thin that it makes no difference at all to a magnetic pickup. Their electric plain strings are also brass coated, and sound fine with magnetic pickups. It's a complete non-issue.

**snoskier63** · 09-28-2016, 10:26 AM

Thanks, that's good to know.

**skykomishone** · 11-30-2016, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Flat

.....I've got the more affordable K&K three-contact pickups in my D-28, and I think it sounds really quite good. Natural sound (imho), definitely no quack.

Originally Posted by Chazmo

+1 on K&K Pure Mini for flattops. Easy to install yourself--I've done it on a couple of guitars--and it sounds like a mic. No preamp necessarily required, although you may want one to shape your sound.

Flat, Chazmo, and friends,

I just bought AgentSmith's (JZ's) Martin, and it has the K&K Pure Mini, and it doesn't come with, nor do I have a preamp, and I definitely plan to do some shape shifting of the sound. After cruising the various reviews, blogs, etc., about preamps, I'm not sure what to do there yet.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

S

**snoskier63** · 11-30-2016, 05:34 PM

I can't comment on its performance yet as it has not yet been installed, but I wound up getting an internal mic from Bartlett Audio that is permanently installed with a connection to the end pin. As for the battery, rather than being internal it is external making battery changes a snap. You can either clip the battery to your belt, velcro it to the amp, or even just place it somewhere out of the way. I'll post a review once it is installed.

**VinceMGuitar** · 11-30-2016, 05:43 PM

If you have a passive transducer inside the guitar, you'll want to keep the cable to the active preamp portion as short as possible via a belt clip type solution. The signal degrades significantly with cable length.

I have a similar set up on my D28, with passive soundboard transducers and an undersaddle running out to a stereo endpin. I can definitely tell a difference if I run a long cable or a short cable to the preamp.

**Longways to Go** · 11-30-2016, 05:45 PM

This may seem a bit silly in the face of so many new and very sophisticated options, but I still think the old Bill Lawrence sound hole pickup sounds great.

**rob taft** · 11-30-2016, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by skykomishone

Flat, Chazmo, and friends,

I just bought AgentSmith's (JZ's) Martin, and it has the K&K Pure Mini, and it doesn't come with, nor do I have a preamp, and I definitely plan to do some shape shifting of the sound. After cruising the various reviews, blogs, etc., about preamps, I'm not sure what to do there yet.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

S

This what I use.

LR Baggs Venue DI Acoustic Preamp EQ/DI/Tuner Pedal | Sweetwater.com

**snoskier63** · 11-30-2016, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by VinceMGuitar

If you have a passive transducer inside the guitar, you'll want to keep the cable to the active preamp portion as short as possible via a belt clip type solution. The signal degrades significantly with cable length.

I have a similar set up on my D28, with passive soundboard transducers and an undersaddle running out to a stereo endpin. I can definitely tell a difference if I run a long cable or a short cable to the preamp.

Thanks for the advice.

**Flat** · 12-01-2016, 03:03 AM

skykomishone,

I don't have a DI/preamp at them moment, though I think I could benefit from one. I'll probably eventually get that Baggs Venue that rob taft linked to upthread, or maybe this Fishman:

Fishman Aura Spectrum DI Imaging Pedal with D.I. | Sweetwater.com

**skykomishone** · 12-01-2016, 11:10 AM

Thanks guys,

I appreciate the advice. It's helpful to know what my JGF bro's experience is prior to making decisions, especially when there are so many choices out there. I'm typically an acoustic player, but since it has the pickup, I'll want to plug in some, I'm sure.

S

**Chazmo** · 12-03-2016, 02:34 PM

K&K recommends their own preamp to ensure a good impedance match. Impedance is apparently higher with K&K pickups than Fishman, LR Baggs, etc. I have heard some people use Red Eye preamps effectively with K&K pickups.

**Cavalier** · 12-03-2016, 09:54 PM

I really like the K&K pickups, they do their homework. I've had good results using the LR Baggs Para Acoustic D.I. for a fine tuning preamp. It is sensitive to small adjustments, so take your time, and does help with feedback. It has the range to cover a wide range of input impedances.

For archtops I do have a recommendation on K&Ks not listed in their info. I've gotten good results with their Big Twin pickups on internal installations, mounting them under the areas where the saddle posts connect with the feet. This is far inboard of their next to the F hole recommendation but gives a much better tone. For best volume they should be mounted with superglue gel but it takes a long reach.

The procedure is to don a nitrile or latex glove and use some of their double sided adhesive to stick the pickup to your gloved fingertip. The finger to use is the one that can fit through and make the reach, individual results will certainly vary. Practice reaching in and pressing, when you re confident (or less insecure) apply the superglue gel to the pickup, reach in and hold for 3 times the glue manufacturer's recommended interval. The superglue gel won't roll off the surface and gives you a slightly longer working time with better gap filling properties. After the glue sets gently wiggle your gloved finger to escape the adhesive. K&Ks mounted on top under the feet in the same area also provide good results, just less discrete. Individual results vary, small bridge movements can make big differences in tone so getting things located before proceeding is important.