Trenier V.S. Slaman - anybody have experience with both luthiers?

**Dioxic** · 10-06-2016, 10:21 PM

Considering an es-175 style guitar with a solid top and Charlie Christian pickup. Perhaps a couple other features too. Has anybody had experience with either luthier? Anybody have experience with both? They seem top notch.

**Jabberwocky** · 10-07-2016, 02:24 AM

They ARE top notch. Bryant Trenier's guitars show the influence of Jimmy D'Aquisto. Daniel Slaman guitars are Gibson guitars as Gibson used to make them.

If you are looking for a Gibson replica with the CC blade 3-point pickup, Daniel Slaman has made lots of them.

It all comes down to the look and form of the guitar and budget.

**Fred Archtop** · 10-07-2016, 03:20 AM

I own two Slaman guitars but never had the opportunity to try a Trenier. I am in France and I have never seen a Trenier on the market around here.

I can just witness how incredibly true are Slaman's guitars when it comes to CC pick ups. I have an original prewar Gibson ES 150 and a custom made ES 250 by Daniel. They are the two guitars I prefer, by far. Daniel has really done a fantastic job over several decades of work to get the mojo sound of prewar Gibsons.

A 175 shape (i.e. 16" cutaway) with solid top and CC PU...this is exactly the "sister series" proposed by Daniel Slaman and played by Pat Metheny.

I wish I can try a Trenier one of these days.

Cheers.

**Franz 1997** · 10-07-2016, 04:09 AM

I have a couple of Slaman guitars which roughly correspond to your 'custom -ES175' idea, with carved tops ( although not with CC pickups). They are a 1999 North Sea Thinline model, and a later DS-175 model, Daniel's thin-line take on the ES175. He made both these guitars before he developed the very successful New Vintage guitars niche that he has built for himself, and the prices were quite modest.

They are top notch, as noted above. I have owned a few Gibson ES175s from the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 00's, and the quality of the Slamans is far above any of the 175s. Their refined acoustic sound bears no resemblance to the plywood clank of the 175, and the quality of the finishes and workmanship exceeds that of any Gibson I've owned.

However, if you want a gigging guitar, be aware that Slaman guitars in general feed back quickly, as do most carved acoustic arch top guitars, and an ES175 is probably a more practical choice.

Daniel has recently become a specialist CC- equipped guitar maker, and knows as much as anyone how to make them. His prices have risen, commensurate with his success, of course.

**Fred Archtop** · 10-07-2016, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by Franz 1997

However, if you want a gigging guitar, be aware that Slaman guitars in general feed back quickly, as do most carved acoustic arch top guitars, and an ES175 is probably a more practical choice.

Hi Franz,

Just my own experience from my ES 250 (actually DS 250) from the "New Vintage Guitars" series. I am using it for gigging in a full combo context, i.e. 2 horn players (sax + trp), double bass & drums. We play loud in a bop/hard-bop style and my DS 250 has no feedback issue. As usual, if you find the good angle with the amp (Fender Deluxe for me) there is no special problem.

Best.

**Franz 1997** · 10-07-2016, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by Fred Archtop

Hi Franz,

Just my own experience from my ES 250 (actually DS 250) from the "New Vintage Guitars" series. I am using it for gigging in a full combo context, i.e. 2 horn players (sax + trp), double bass & drums. We play loud in a bop/hard-bop style and my DS 250 has no feedback issue. As usual, if you find the good angle with the amp (Fender Deluxe for me) there is no special problem.

Best.

Good point Fred. I was talking about non-CC guitars when I said that, but I'm sure you are right that having a couple of heavy magnets hanging from the top of the guitar is going to do a lot to beat any feedback. I read somewhere that the whole original CC assembly weighs a couple of pounds or so.

And in fairness, I often have to play quite close to the amp, in cramped cafe conditions, which is not ideal

I found the same with a gibson ES175 CC 79 reissue I had for a couple of years; that guitar had a few issues, but feedback certainly wasn't one them..

**QAman** · 10-07-2016, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Fred Archtop

I own two Slaman guitars but never had the opportunity to try a Trenier. I am in France and I have never seen a Trenier on the market around here.

I can just witness how incredibly true are Slaman's guitars when it comes to CC pick ups. I have an original prewar Gibson ES 150 and a custom made ES 250 by Daniel. They are the two guitars I prefer, by far. Daniel has really done a fantastic job over several decades of work to get the mojo sound of prewar Gibsons.

A 175 shape (i.e. 16" cutaway) with solid top and CC PU...this is exactly the "sister series" proposed by Daniel Slaman and played by Pat Metheny.

I wish I can try a Trenier one of these days.

Cheers.

Fred Archtop,
Your in luck . Bryant Trenier just moved to France last month and is in the process of setting up shop in Uzes.

**Fred Archtop** · 10-07-2016, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Steve Longobardi

Fred Archtop,
Your in luck . Bryant Trenier just moved to France last month and is in the process of setting up shop in Uzes.

That's a great piece of news !!!! Uzes is close to my native region where I go regularly for holidays !

Thanks a lot Steve.

**Dennis D** · 10-07-2016, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Steve Longobardi

Fred Archtop,
Your in luck . Bryant Trenier just moved to France last month and is in the process of setting up shop in Uzes.

Wow ! Good for him !

Will he keep the US operation ?

**QAman** · 10-07-2016, 09:28 AM

He will be manufacturing only in France. In fact, he already received an order the first week in France.

Bryant is an amazing builder who will continue to gain global recognition . I can't think of another builder in Europe who can recreate a D'Aquisto or D'Angelico guitar as well as Bryant.

He is also working on his owns designs, of which I recently acquired one. A masterpiece round hole fingerstyle gem.

In just short time - people will begin to understand the difference in his guitars.

**campusfive** · 10-07-2016, 04:24 PM

You might almost say you're looking for a L4CES-CC, to use the Gibson nomenclature. If you're looking at an ELECTRIC guitar in the Gibson tradition, I'd say go with Slaman for a more Kalamazoo approach.

If I were looking for something a bit modernistic, D'Aquisto-inspired, then Trenier.

That said, I really hope I can get one of Bryant's Broadway guitars. Steve L's looks and sounds transcendent.
I'm pretty bummed to hear that Bryant moved, if only because the possibility of taking a detour to upstate NY was a lot easier than stopping by a workshop in France.

Also, I've played a Slaman DS-250, and it was excellent. I'd think about getting one someday.

**thrush40** · 10-09-2016, 10:09 AM

I own a Slaman fixed bridge Dome, not the guitar you are interested in for sure. Having said that, I will tell you it is one of my favorite guitars to play, although it was quite the adventure to make it so.

I bought the guitar from someone who posted it for sale on this forum. I can't remember who now and it's entirely irrelevant. The guitar was virtually unplayable when it arrived to me. I was worried it had severe build issues. It still astounds me what players get used to. Long story short: a big fret job did the trick. However, it had finish issues, most notably the back of the neck was completely rough. It seemed like sap in the wood migrated out of the wood through its natural pores and though the finish, creating a surface lots of tiny bumps. The luthier who did the fretwork for me had some theory about the wood and finish used. Whatever the case, I used 0000 steel wool to get a smooth neck and a feel that I really like.

I have a completely unfounded idea that the unique nature of this instrument creates its own set of issues and that, perhaps, Slaman was experimenting with design and materials for this particular guitar. Moreover, I imagine he is improving his skills with every build. My experience may be an anomaly. And, for the record, I absolutely love this guitar. I just had higher expectations of fit and finish from a instrument with its price tag, even used. My overall point being that I would want to look really closely at a guitar from his shop before buying. They may be absolutely magnificent.

**RudolfR** · 08-17-2018, 06:45 AM

RE CampusFive: You emphasise the ELECTRIC part referring to Slaman Guitars. Where would you to to have a vintage ACOUSTIC Gibson guitar made (I'm interested in a Super 400)?

**Mark M.** · 08-17-2018, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by QAman

He is also working on his owns designs, of which I recently acquired one. A masterpiece round hole fingerstyle gem.

I'd love to see pictures of this one, Steve.

**bananafist** · 08-17-2018, 10:21 AM

I've exchanged emails with Bryant Trenier in France, but in the end went with Daniel Slaman for my recent build (see NGD Slaman DS350T recently.) I also owned one of Franz's Slamans for a period.
I've always had a soft spot for the 'Gibson' styling and my Slaman did not disappoint. The craftsmanship and finish leave nothing to be desired, and several friends have commented on its 'old Gibson' feel and the sound is great too. I can only think something must have happened to Thrush 40 s Slaman post build, as, as far as I'm aware, his experience is in no way typical.

**Hammertone** · 08-17-2018, 01:24 PM

My guess is that a Campellone EP would work as well - 15" wide, lots of ES-175 design cues, carved top, laminated rims/back. You could get one built with a CC pickup - he's built CC-equipped guitars as well:

**QAman** · 08-17-2018, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Mark M.

I'd love to see pictures of this one, Steve.

Here is a pic - round hole masterpiece

**tcaster** · 08-17-2018, 02:17 PM

I have a Trenier model E. It’s his built in pickup, solid top/back etc.electric model.
It is 16” and thinner than a 175.Appointments like a DAquisto.
It came with a humbucker sized Lollar CC pickup and it sounded just beautiful with that pickup, but, I found the hum in the main room I play in was unbearable.
Not all places have funky wiring but when you are playing in one you know it with a CC even more so than P90s.
I tried grounding it and Bryant was very gracious helping me try to alleviate the issue but no cigar.
I eventually went with a classic 57 hum-bucker which now works great.
I love the guitar, it’s hard to play one of my laminates after getting the solid top tone in a fairly no feedback problem set up.
But......I’ll never forget the gorgeous sound of that guitar with the CC through my Gibson Goldtone amp.
I can imagine how special his full sized acoustic guitars must sound.

**QAman** · 08-17-2018, 02:56 PM

Tcaster

I can imagine how special his full sized acoustic guitars must sound.[/QUOTE]

Just extraordinary ! Bryant’s passion is building straight acoustic Archtops in the style of Jim D’Aquisto, who also preferred straight acoustic builds.

Of course , as you know - Bryant will build whatever you like , and his jazz electrics are in a league all their own - very creamy warm tone.

I also played his style E and loved it . In fact , I was contemplating the purchase of one completed a few years ago - and it was sold within days.

Glad to hear your enjoying your guitar - the Trenier’s are quite special and currently being played by Pasquale Grasso, who is one of the best NYC jazz players .