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Max 405
JD , here is a pic of the L4ces showing the dark
patch on the lower bass side bout. I have had a
number of ideas for a procedure to remove it, as
you will appreciate I do not want irreparable
damage to occur to the finish, I shall be grateful
for your view on the safest method to apply please.
SF
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11-23-2016 06:55 PM
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Silverfoxx,
Beautiful guitar buddy.
Here is what I would do. I would get some virtuoso cleaner.
Because the discoloration is in a spot usually occupied by the underside of someone's bicep, there is a strong chance that the stain is from perspiration. Those body fluids can seep into the lacquer. When they do, they can separate the lacquer from the wood. So here is what I would do. Use the virtuoso cleaner on a soft foam wax applicator pad. Start in an area on the outskirts of the stain. Where the least amount of staining exists. In a light, circular motion, rub LIGHTLY. Then with a micro fiber cloth, remove the cleaner. If you begin to see the stain disappear, then you may be lucky. This means the stain is on the surface and it has not penetrated the lacquer. Continue on. Don't rub too firmly because you want the cleaner to do the work and you don't want to chance removing the lacquer.
If at any point you see the lacquer flaking off, then stop. You have a decision to make.. leave alone or take it to a restoration specialist for a respray. Hopefully it won't get to that point.
Let us know how it goes.
your friend, Joe D
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I bought a used Heritage 535 goldtop that had that type of discoloration in the same area. Since I assumed it was from the previous owner's forearm or bicep perspiration, I thought a bit of Virtuoso Cleaner would do the trick. Nope.
The mark darkened. I contacted the seller, a reputable and large dealer for help. He referred me to Heritage.
Heritage said do not mess with the mark, and agreed to take a look if I shipped it to them. I worked out a very reasonable refinish by the factory. This was several years ago when their ownership was trying to improve customer service. They did a fantastic job on the guitar.
Bottom line, is please be careful with your beautiful natural finish L4 CES! I'd hate for you to damage it. Take it to a qualified luthier or contact Gibson for help. IF you need a top refin, a professional should can do it without permanently degrading your fine instrument. Good luck.
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JD & Gitfiddler,
Thank you both for the valuable advice, and I will proceed
with caution. I did consider a refin but that will be the last
resort.
Alan
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Armpit juice stain? Try not to think about it...
Well, silverfoxx, if Virtuoso Cleaner does not remove it, try not to look at it too hard. The less you think about these things the less you see them. Soon, you will treat them with utter disdain.
The more you try to fix these problems, the worse they often become. I recall the little speck of dirt which ended up destroying the finish of the guitar just because I could not leave well enough alone.
I did not notice that stain until you pointed it out. The top of your L4CES is nicely ambered and will get more amber in time. It may just reduce the visibility of the stain through a natural ageing process.
My first thought is to advise you to try Virtuoso Cleaner lightly. And if that does not work, leave it alone. That said, there are lots of fine furniture craftsmen in the UK. Perhaps one has a good idea of how stains are removed from fine light-coloured furniture.
Take it from the fellows who play Les Pauls. Relic-king is good. Relic-king is good. Relic-king is good. All it requires is a mindset change.
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Another wacky idea I have is to get a John Pearse ebony or light coloured wood arm-rest and attach it to the rim over that spot. Just enough to distract you from that stain.
The thing sticks pretty tenaciously. There are threads dedicated to removing it. It came stuck on my Daniel Slaman 1923 L5. I tried pulling at it and then remembered my little speck of dirt adventure and decided to leave well enough alone.
Well, look at these mandolin ones McClung mandolin armrest .Last edited by Jabberwocky; 11-24-2016 at 05:49 AM.
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I agree with jabber that it is more of a mindset thing than anything else. I too paid no attention at first until you pointed it out. Sometimes a "flaw" can become a thing of beauty if taken from a certain point of view.
I say leave her be and appreciate her for who she is!
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My 175 has developed a dull patch over the years where my elbow rests. I tried Virtuoso but it didn't make any difference, so I just left it alone. I agree with others that it's a mindset thing. At first it bugged me, because the virtuoso made the rest of the finish look great. But now I don't care any more.
Recently I also dinged the top by walking it into a mike-stand or something. It took a tiny flake out of the dark lacquer so now there's a pale spot showing. Again, at first I really got annoyed and was considering getting it re-lacquered or something. But now I don't give a s**t! It just adds to the patina of an old guitar.
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I was so busy wiping the saliva off my face and wringing it out of my shirt after seeing that guitar that I totally missed the stain. It looks to me like "experience" not a defect. Whether it is or isn't, I don't think many would notice. But of course, if you notice it, then it matters. But so much goes into the calculus of a guitar's sound, maybe it's a thicker part of the finish that somehow contributes to the tone... who knows. I know the rule for me is always, if I change one thing, I will end up changing 10 things. Stuff ripples.
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I am guessing that you frequently wear a dark colored sweatshirt or fleece when you practice, and that item has not been washed enough for some of the dye to bleed out of it. And, it is made of a material that has reacted with the finish on the guitar, allowing some of the dye to transfer into the guitar finish. I had this same thing happen to me with a 335 several years ago. I could not find a way to get it out.
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MarkM
Originally Posted by Mark M.
No, that is not the case, I'm quite careful with the shirts or T-shirts I wear in that respect
I bought the guitar ,used, a few years ago and inherited the mark with it ,( one of the few
bought on line ),too far away to try it. It is not of great consequence and after reading good
advice here I will not try any cleaning agents except perhaps Sodium Carbonate and water.
At the slightest hint of a problem I will not persevere but leave well alone. In fact what I'm
given to believe is forearm dirt from its previous owner.
However I am very grateful for your, and other member's suggestions and advice. The guitar
is easy to play, and with a superb tone. It has an African Blackwood bridge assembly
highly recommended by two long standing members here , and made by Bill Gagnon ( Oregon)
its doppelganger is on my L5CES , provides a rich mellow tone, and eliminates metallic
ping from the standard TOM bridge.
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I also believe that dye in clothing can cause this type of damage. I had it happen to a Campellone in just one night. I wore a new black shirt on a very hot and humid outdoor gig and the next morning I noticed that my guitar had a big dark patch where the dye bled into the finish (top and back). I was never able to fix it and I just couldn't get used to it. I eventually sold the guitar and ordered a new one from Mark Campellone. Too bad, because that was a great guitar. Originally Posted by Mark M.
Keith
Last edited by floatingpickup; 11-24-2016 at 10:53 PM.
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My Heritage 575 has a pinkish stain on some of the binding from spending a lot of time leaning up against a red microfiber couch.
Just one of those things. I can't baby a guitar.
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A buddy of mine has a custom shop 12 fret Martin flat-top that he was trying to keep perfect by wearing a sweat-band on his right arm while playing. As it turned out, the sweat-band was black, and it stained the finish. It looks very much like the OP's guitar, but even darker.
As Homer Simpson would say: "Doooh" !
Me, I'm more in the 'oh well who cares category'.
I'm more inclined toward a straight neck and great tone
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Nice one Lawson,
without wishing to rub the proverbial salt into the wound , when I have a moment I'll post
some pics of some other ,unblemished ,Archtops, so beware you may need a bath towel
on hand. I will reiterate that the L4ces has a great sound and tone , not far short of my
all time favourite L5, IMHO the best Jazz guitar available.
regards, SF
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I got plenty of towels, and a washer-drier to recycle them if necessary! Originally Posted by silverfoxx
My two holy grail "last guitars I want" are the L5ces and the L4ces.
To paraphrase Clint Eastwood in Unforgiven "'Need''s got nuthin' to do with it."
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