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L4 ces:
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12-15-2016 12:26 AM
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BCR Music and Sound - BCR Repairs
Greg of BCR Music sees a lot of these. Give him a call. It looks like a $300 job to glue, clamp, and make invisible.
Sorry to see it.
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Besides the repair costs, it also costs an unrepairable crack in the Ego as well.
The positive side of it is, that the neck crack is a very clean one.
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This one had a repaired neck crack but apparently it opened back up.
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A properly glued neck break should be stronger than the surrounding wood. Consider this an opportunity to get it fixed correctly and permanently.
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Agreed on all of the above... RESIST the temptation to glue it yourself, if youvdo take a thousand or more bucks off the value.
OTOH, jury rigged repairs are good for buyers who would not otherwise be able to afford a first quality model.
I got a "damaged" 335 for 1/3 the price of an undamaged one, making my pristine 335 go unused.
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Neck-cracks: they bring expensive instruments within financial reach of the less fortunate (read: jazz-)guitarist!
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Many years ago i had a this happen to a uh was it a classical.Were talking 1970.I fixed mine with elmers glue i was a kid.But was focused and very careful.It worked and played for the rest of the time in tune!!So if thats the case then i agree with MaxTwang that fix with todays luthiers proper glues no worries.DONOT DO IT YOUR SELF GNAPPI IS CORRECT!
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As an oblique topic cautionary note, if any of you experience a break like this, IMMEDIATELY remove the tension from the strings and ASAP get it repaired. Time is of the essence in these cases. That is exposed open grain and wood, no matter how seasoned or old, young or well finished, the wood will react with the air at exposure to an open crack/break. Something with that kind of fibre break will fit together and be minimally impacted IF you don't leave it long enough to oxidize on the surface of the wood. This oxidation occurs on the molecular level and forms a surface that prevents the glue to properly impregnate and bond with the wood fibres.
When it was mentioned that the break gave way previously, my first suspicion was that it had been left too long before the repair. The second was a bad feeling on a repeat repair. There's now a glue surface on the adjoining pieces of the neck break. That old glue should, if not must be removed completely, else the wood is not being glued but the glue.
If white glue was used, it will fail again. If yellow glue was used, it's formed a bond with the wood, but the two wood surfaces are being prevented from bonding by that very glue.
Some may say I'm being alarmist, but my experience with clean joints, wood aligned breaks and clean breaks has all led me to treat glue surfaces this way. Fresh wood on fresh wood with good glue and a clamped joint to minimize the actual glue contribution is what you're going for. All else is an effort to achieve that state.
Best of luck
David
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When I was kid, my friend fixed his Gibson SG with a big wood screw. Ugly as heck but it worked great.
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How much will it cost? It depends:
. Who is repairing
. Whether there was a previous repair
.. What adhesive was used in the previous repair
.. Whether the previous repair actually closes or not
. How much "invisible" you want to pay for
. What other work you need now that your guitar is in the shop anyway
. Whether you need to pay for 'rush' service
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What is the average cost for this kind of break? $300? 400?
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A sight I hate to see. Best of luck with the repair. This a repair you don't want to go cheap on. Get a great repair luthier to do it.
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"There's now a glue surface on the adjoining pieces of the neck break. That old glue should, if not must be removed completely, else the wood is not being glued but the glue.
If white glue was used, it will fail again. If yellow glue was used, it's formed a bond with the wood, but the two wood surfaces are being prevented from bonding by that very glue. "
this.
it's going to be tough to get that back together soundly because of the coating of old glue on the wood.
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A couple of my early guitars suffered this indignity, which is why I could afford them at that time. If you want a one and done repair, have it splined. This consists of properly gluing the parts together as described above, and then routing out slot-like sections into which are glued thin strips of the appropriate wood (in this case mahogany, by the looks). This process is repeated until the entire broken section is completely replaced by fresh, clean multi-laminated bits of wood (of differing lengths, to tie the new and old together, structurally). That section of the neck is then re-carved and re-finished. The finished neck will be at least as strong as the original, and probably stiffer. This will cost you, but your healed instrument will thank you. Good luck with your repair!
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I've seen a lot of his repairs over at MLP. He can do this up right. Good call, Jabs.
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
ETA: Or, if you're in Canada, look up Freddy G over there. Outstanding luthier and repairman, amongst other talents.Last edited by Thumpalumpacus; 12-15-2016 at 03:34 PM.
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Feel your pain
happened to me twice , so awful...
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"A couple of my early guitars suffered this indignity, which is why I could afford them at that time. If you want a one and done repair, have it splined. This consists of properly gluing the parts together as described above, and then routing out slot-like sections into which are glued thin strips of the appropriate wood (in this case mahogany, by the looks). This process is repeated until the entire broken section is completely replaced by fresh, clean multi-laminated bits of wood (of differing lengths, to tie the new and old together, structurally). That section of the neck is then re-carved and re-finished. The finished neck will be at least as strong as the original, and probably stiffer. This will cost you, but your healed instrument will thank you. Good luck with your repair!"
My variation on this is to use carbon fiber set with epoxy for the spline and glue joint. A wood overlay can be added if a natural finish is in order. I wouldn't discourage people from attempting their own repairs if they like wood working and want to learn about it. The way to start is with inexpensive instruments though. A $200- 300 Epiphone or Ibanez is not worth a $300 repair job but is worth picking up some glue for.Last edited by Cavalier; 12-15-2016 at 05:03 PM.
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I don't get why any luthier would do a headstock repair for $300. If it were me that job wouldn't be worth my time for $300. Is it easier to do than it looks? Looks like a lot of work to me!
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Get a plastic bag (like a ziploc style sandwich bag) around it, squeeze as much air out as you can, and tape it. This will save any splinters that fall out, as well as protecting it somewhat from moisture etc. Certain luthiers are going to insist it needs splines.....I'd find one that doesn't spline those repairs. It's more expensive to use splines, and I've never found it necessary on a break that wasn't missing wood.
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if it's a clean first time break it's a pretty simple glue and clamp job and touch up if necessary. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
but that's not this...
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The thing is a spline will be stronger than a unbroken neck because the grain will be oriented for strength. Why necks break like this is because of the grain runout caused by the headstock angle, the wood is getting a shear load. A stronger neck would have the headstock angle done with laminations to keep the grain in line with the load. Lots of building traditions date to the time before modern adhesives but that doesn't make them work better, it is just the best that could be done at the time. Originally Posted by customxke
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Jokes aside, you should be able to do it yourself, if you want. I found this link. You have to click through the 12 steps...
How to repair a broken guitar neck (headstock)
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I had the exact same break in the headstock of a D'Agostino guitar, but it had a lock-in tuning metal piece by the nut, and there were two big screws that went through the neck to attach it to the headstock.
When the repairman saw that, he couldn't guarantee the repair, and didn't charge me.
Sure enough, it only lasted a week. So be glad you didn't have one of those contraptions on the back of the neck, or there wouldn't be enough wood to make a decent repair.
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I like to tinker as much as the next guy, but for a gtr. worth over $2,000, I think I would trust the repair to someone who's done a couple of these before.
My hobbyist-built Benedetto-type archie had a neck attachment issue. My luthier/tech guy literally had to fabricate a tool to work on it. It took him a while, but it came back perfect, and it is a super instrument, now.
When my first daughter was born it was a difficult delivery, and there was a prolonged delivery. I was really, really glad we were in a modern medical center, and was even more glad that when a forceps delivery was called for, the guy doing it was experienced, and an OB-GYN professor who had done a lot. (I talked to him afterward, and he said young doctors don't even do these anymore because of malpractice liability concerns.)
Sometimes on the job training is not the best way to go.Last edited by goldenwave77; 12-15-2016 at 08:54 PM.
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