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Hi,
is there anybody out there owning Tom Bills archtop?
Can I have a feedback please?
Thanks,
Regards
Roberto
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04-22-2017 04:53 PM
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don't have one, but looks like a smart and talented luthier...out of st louis...he uses beautiful wood and does a french polish (hand) finish
here's vid of a beautifully crafted guitar
https://player.vimeo.com/video/34643...amp;portrait=0
cheers
ps- sorry cant get vimeo to embed!...any pointers?Last edited by neatomic; 04-22-2017 at 05:18 PM. Reason: ps-
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Thank you very much!
Regards
Roberto
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Tom may make a fantastic guitar. I honestly have no experience with his guitars nor do I know anyone who has. This is coming from someone who knows the custom archtop builders fairly well. He maintains a strong internet presence mostly as an educator in lutherie. I think most people know of him through this.
Tom charges premium prices for his work (>$25,000), more than some very experienced archtop luthiers with excellent reputations like Steve Andersen, John Buscarino, Bill Comins, Steve Grimes or Tom Ribbecke. All of these builders have built their reputations over many decades of work.
Tom's guitars are French polished (shellac) which is quite thin, delicate but repairable vs. more durable nitro or oil varnish finishes usually used on these instruments. I would not want a French polished archtop. I have a FP classical and I need to exhibit care to keep my right arm from sweating on it. This is on a 14-3/8" guitar. I cannot imagine having to do this on a 16" or 17" archtop.
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Beautiful guitars but,out of the range of the average Joe.
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Hi,
thank you very much for the info....I understand you point.
However I am very curious to see a 17" archtop in shellac what it may sound like...and from the pictures he shows on the site, his work looks just superb....
Cheers
Roberto
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Thank you very much.
Cheers
Roberto
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Once in awhile a used Tom Bills archtop Natura model shows up used at guitar shops like Gruhns or Guitar Gallery,etc. Still spendy but around $12-13K
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Thanks, actually I am having a look around....but I cannot find any.
Maybe who own them has no intention to sell them...good sign.
Thanks,
Cheers
Roberto
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Well, if you can afford a $25,000 experiment then why not?
Originally Posted by rpagnotta56
From my discussions with a very good acoustic guitar luthier it may not make much difference. In his work he has found that the different finish choices make much less difference in the sound of the instrument than he expected. The quality of the application (e.g., not too thin or too thick, allowing the proper drying time, etc.) is more influential than whether it is nitro, varnish, poly, etc. The wood and construction matter much, much more. But the die-hard nitro believers won't accept that, however, and believe that nitro is the secret sauce so he sells more guitars finished in nitro (and charges more for the extra work and safety/environmental hassles, so that works out for him).
Frankly I think that what pick and strings you use is going to have much more effect on the sound you get than whether it's finished in shellac, nitrocellulose, varnish, etc.
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Interesting.....
Thank you
Cheers
Roberto
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Hi,
this is really nice...but is one of his last Nitro, I have been told.
Thanks,
Cheers
Roberto
Originally Posted by rob taft
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[QUOTE=rpagnotta56;765414]Hi,
this is really nice...but is one of his last Nitro, I have been told.
Thanks,
Cheers
Roberto[/QUOT
The guitar in the link has a Shellac finish.
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My late friend Bill Hollenbeck would agree that the finish has not much to do with the guitar's sound unless you just pour it on. It is all in the graduations on the top and bracing. Bill used a single traverse bar like Stromberg but with a small outward brace almost looks like a Y. He would then carve the top so that the maximum response with a tuning fork would eventually be right over the bridge and saddle point. Usually before the final carving the fork would be the loudest with an inch or so from the center of the where the bridge would sit. Then he would carve and do things so that the final was almost dead center. He also did not believe in carving to any specific note. Problem with that is that if you get the guitar to resonate a certain note then that particular note when played would either be louder or cancel the frequency. He always believed it was best to simply carve in a way the the top produce the best response. I ask him about tap tuning with fingers and he said, he used a tuning fork to pick up the vibrations it was more sensitive than the hands.
As far as finishes he always used nitro and during his time with Barker they also used acrylic. Acrylic was nice it buffed out just great seem to not really do anything different for the sound, but in the end he went with nitro. Nitro is still the top dog in my opinion and really other than the environmental aspect is the easiest to use. Finishing if done correct has little to do with sound. I must admit I would not want a French Polish too delicate.
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Thanks for your comment.
I have have seen lately somebody using polyurethane finish too..I believe, as long as you have a very thin one, it is OK with all the finishes.
Sure French Polish is very delicate...
And however carving of top and backs plus bracing, can make the difference...
Cheers
Roberto
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there are a lot of french polished violins and cellos from near 400 years ago still around..and $$$$$$$!!!!
not that delicate!..and a premium touch... & completely natural, like the wood it's going on
here's bob benedetto french polish
cheers
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I've got 2 Hofners. One is finished in poly while the other is french polished, and the sound couldn't be more different. I'm aware that there could be many reasons as to why this is the case, but the most obvious difference between the two is the finish.
After being around high quality guitars for many years, I've come across far fewer exceptional guitars finished in poly than their nitro counterparts. As a result, I've developed a preference for nitro.
It's possible that well applied poly is every bit as good as well applied nitro, but I'd rather not risk it.
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..
Last edited by rpagnotta56; 04-23-2017 at 06:14 PM.
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Very nice indeed...
Originally Posted by neatomic
there are a lot of french polished violins and cellos from near 400 years ago still around..and $$$$$$$!!!!
not that delicate!..and a premium touch... & completely natural, like the wood it's going on
here's bob benedetto french polish
cheers
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If you want the ultimate in a thin-finished archtop guitar that, combined with other revolutionary and historically appropriate building techniques, manages to be a nearly 100% efficient instrument, AND you are looking at guitars in that price range, you should check out Ken Parker's archtops. Http://kenparkerarchtops.com
Bob
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I was locally offered a Natura Deluxe last fall for $6k. Didn't check it out. Looked exactly like the guitar linked to above.
There are amazing guitars at $6k used that are better known. I think even at $6k, it could have been hard to re-sell down the line. There's little to no information out there about these guitars.
I have a varnish Collings flat-top. The finish does not add thousands of $ to its secondhand value.
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I looked them over but frankly I am a traditionalist so none of them do a thing for me visually or just as a guitar. granted they might be tremendous sounding I don't know, but right now nothing I would fancy. Originally Posted by uburoibob
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Oh, actually that guitar at guitargal is the same exact one I was offered before. Originally Posted by HeyNow
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I understand. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
At the time the first archtops were being deployed, they were as radical as Ken's guitars. These days, they are traditional.
Well, if you ever find yourself in a position of playing one of Ken's archtops, give it a whirl. They truly are like nothing else out there and take the entire art and science or archtop building a quantum leap forward. The sound a playability may win you over. They are transformative.
Bob
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