Versatility of Johnny Smith Floating Pickup

**stringmaster** · 05-04-2017, 04:04 PM

Just curious how versatile these pickups are i.e. a pickguard mounted floating J.S. pickup. Most of the clips I've seen them used on are of a more delicate Jazz type sound (like Frisell, J.S. etc)--what about for more aggressive Blues, Swing, etc? I realize that a built in pickup would be more usable overall, but for a different flavor perhaps? Got clips/vids? Thx

**Papawooly** · 05-04-2017, 05:05 PM

I found a few JS (Lollar) pickup test videos...Enjoy!

**David B** · 05-04-2017, 05:42 PM

On Nigel Price's D'Angelico (right side):

**neatomic** · 05-04-2017, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by ingeneri

... You won't get bluesier than that!

well actually you can!! haha

cheers

**stringmaster** · 05-04-2017, 05:59 PM

Those are all great clips but more on the "Jazzy" side of things ('cept for Otis). I was thinking more along these lines--like vintage Blues, Western Swing etc where guys might have used a monkey on a stick

**omphalopsychos** · 05-04-2017, 07:51 PM

**omphalopsychos** · 05-04-2017, 07:53 PM

The frisell demo you hear is definitely coming from a room mic that's pickup up a lot of the acoustic tone of the guitar. Check out the clip I linked above. I think it's a more accurate picture of the amplified sound of this pickup.

**omphalopsychos** · 05-04-2017, 07:55 PM

Here's another. The nice thing about the pickup is that you can roll of the volume a bit and hear more of the acoustic tone since the floating config allows the top to resonate freely.

**omphalopsychos** · 05-04-2017, 07:57 PM

I think you're going to get a lot more feedback at higher volumes if you want to use this for blues. Depends a lot on the guitar too.

**neatomic** · 05-04-2017, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by stringmaster

great clip of junior..tho he's struggling with that guitar in the solo...his tone has gotten much brighter since

single wide coil (p90) type pickup is way to go for that kinda tone

cheers

**stringmaster** · 05-04-2017, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by neatomic

great clip of junior..tho he's struggling with that guitar in the solo...his tone has gotten much brighter since

single wide coil (p90) type pickup is way to go for that kinda tone

cheers

Thanks and understood. But I've already got that covered and I'm gassing for a new guitar--lol. Was just thinking about getting something different--to diversify my collection a bit--but I don't want to get something that would not leave the house. There's a guitar that I have my eye on with a JS, but if it's not practical.....

**David B** · 05-05-2017, 03:18 AM

Jim Mullen with his Aria (w/ floating JS pickup):

**jads57** · 05-05-2017, 12:24 PM

I have found the JS p/up ,while a very nice pickup for it's time has been updated with Kent Armstrong's USA floating p/up.

**John A.** · 05-05-2017, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by stringmaster

Those are all great clips but more on the "Jazzy" side of things ('cept for Otis). I was thinking more along these lines--like vintage Blues, Western Swing etc where guys might have used a monkey on a stick

The Otis Rush clip is not a floater. It's an Epiphone Riviera with set-in mini-humbuckers.

John

TH · 05-05-2017, 01:38 PM

The JS pickups were the mini pickups they put on Les Pauls; they just put a bracket on it and hung it off the neck of Johnny's Gibson D'Angelico. That was what I'd heard a long time ago, maybe even an interview with Johnny or Ted McCarty or one of those guys.
Makes sense. Also makes for a pickup that has versatility if you want. Depends on what's in your signal chain and amp.
John McLaughlin played a JS for a while.
I don't play at that end of the sound spectrum myself, but I've always felt it's got a lot of range. So much so that I'd replaced pickups in semi hollowbody guitars with minis to get that feel.
A lot goes into the term "range" but a JS floater has a beautiful range to my ear and feel. Not so every humbucking floater out there. I've played some that were really weak and limited. They all look kinda alike. Very different brothers.

David

**Hammertone** · 05-05-2017, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

The JS pickups were the mini pickups they put on Les Pauls; they just put a bracket on it and hung it off the neck of Johnny's Gibson D'Angelico. That was what I'd heard a long time ago, maybe even an interview with Johnny or Ted McCarty or one of those guys. … David

Gibson introduced them in 1961 on Gibson-built Epiphone guitars with a body mount, and on the Johnny Smith with a floating mount. They were subsequntly introduced in @1968 on the Reissue Les Paul goldtop. [ed: OK, OK, introduced on the Les Paul DELUXE in late '68]

TH · 05-05-2017, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Hammertone

Gibson introduced them in 1961 on Gibson-built Epiphone guitars with a body mount, and on the Johnny Smith with a floating mount. They were subsequntly introduced in @1968 on the Reissue Les Paul goldtop.

What he said. Thanks.
Pretty credible credentials in the right hands.
David

**John A.** · 05-06-2017, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Hammertone

Gibson introduced them in 1961 on Gibson-built Epiphone guitars with a body mount, and on the Johnny Smith with a floating mount. They were subsequntly introduced in @1968 on the Reissue Les Paul goldtop.

I had an early 70s SG Special with them.

John

TH · 05-06-2017, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by John A.

I had an early 70s SG Special with them.

John

In the question of the OP, do you think those pickups were versatile? Did they have a practical range of sounds?
David

**John A.** · 05-06-2017, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

In the question of the OP, do you think those pickups were versatile? Did they have a practical range of sounds?
David

Yes. The minis are a bit brighter than a typical full-sized humbucker, but it's a pretty subtle difference, IMO. I played all kinds of music with that guitar.

John

**skykomishone** · 05-16-2017, 10:32 AM

Has anyone done a comparison of the Lollar JS vs the Lollar gold foil? I'd be interested in hearing from someone about that. Thanks.

I'm in the planning stages of putting a floater on my '44 L7, and while starting off thinking the KA 12 pole, but after talking with a couple of guitar builders, like Steve Andersen and Ryan Thorell, I'm opening up the field.

Thanks

S

**omphalopsychos** · 05-16-2017, 01:52 PM

I have not seen a direct comparison, and I haven't heard many people using it for jazz. I asked the guys at Lollar this question, and this was their response (from Austin). They ended up recommending the Lollar Johnny Smith.

The Gold Foil is going to be brighter and thinner than a Charlie Christian, with more harmonic content and a bit more compression. Here is a demo of the Gold Foil on an Archtop for reference:

There is not much you can do just with the wiring on the guitar to change the frequency response and output of the pickup, other than making it brighter or darker with the pot and cap choices. You could run the guitar into an external preamp with gain and eq controls to shape the tone to your liking, or make the adjustments on your amp.

I think this (below) might be a Lollar gold foil, but I haven't been able to confirm.

**skykomishone** · 05-16-2017, 03:32 PM

Omphalopsychos,

Thank you my friend! It helps to hear these things. Sounds like a great pickup. Pretty bright, maybe too much for me, but it's often too hard to know with what settings and amps the players are using. Very tasteful playing, and they sure make great sounds regardless. I have a KA mini humbucker PAF-0 floater on my Campellone, and a 12 pole on my Trenier, and I love them both. I've been encouraged to look at Lollars, so I am. Some of the feedback I've gotten about KA 12 pole has to do with mounting difficulties, but I'd have a pro do it, so, a non-issue.

I don't want to over analyze this, since I'm like some of the other old timers here that tend to like most of these and have a hard time hearing a big diff., but the gold foil really does sparkle in these samples.

S

**omphalopsychos** · 05-16-2017, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by skykomishone

Omphalopsychos,

Thank you my friend! It helps to hear these things. Sounds like a great pickup. Pretty bright, maybe too much for me, but it's often too hard to know with what settings and amps the players are using. Very tasteful playing, and they sure make great sounds regardless. I have a KA mini humbucker PAF-0 floater on my Campellone, and a 12 pole on my Trenier, and I love them both. I've been encouraged to look at Lollars, so I am. Some of the feedback I've gotten about KA 12 pole has to do with mounting difficulties, but I'd have a pro do it, so, a non-issue.

I don't want to over analyze this, since I'm like some of the other old timers here that tend to like most of these and have a hard time hearing a big diff., but the gold foil really does sparkle in these samples.

S

Just to make things more complicated for you, have you considered a Guild Rhythm Chief 1100? I recently went through this quest. I put a Lollar Johnny Smith on one of my guitars and I am getting a rhythm chief installed on the other. I ultimately sold the guitar that had the Lollar, but certainly not because of the Lollar.

Here's my inspiration for the Rhythm Chief.

**omphalopsychos** · 05-16-2017, 07:40 PM

I think if you order these by tonal qualities from fattest/darkest to thinnest/brightest, my impression is KA 12 pole, Lollar JS, Guild 1100, Lollar Gold Foil. There are several other options, but at least among these, it might help you get a sense of the tone and help you find what you're looking for. I will say that I'm pretty confident that you'll be happy with the Lollar JS if you get it. I am a big fan.

Here's a demo of what it sounds like through a blackface fender-type amp.