Fender Princeton Reverb Amps

[wengr]

I am considering a new amp for use with a strat and tele, and really leaning toward a new Princeton reverb style like Headstrong or Vintage Sound.

However I would also really like it to do double duty with my archtops.

I have a Gibson ES-165, which I suspect may sound ok with a good Princeton, but I get much more use out of my Eastman John Pisano.

This one concerns me. So my question is, what should I expect from this carved spruce top Eastman with flatwounds played fingerstyle through a Princeton reverb style amp?

[docbop]

I used a BF Princeton Reverb and 335 for many years and great sound. Many Jazzers dig Princetons they like a single channel Deluxe Reverb with a few watts less. I had a DRRI and liked that a lot, better than the Fender Benson I switched to. Some replace the 10" in the Princeton for Jazz use.

[Jimmy Mack]

As long as the PR of choice gives you enough headroom for the arch tops. ???

I had an LP with '57 Classics, a solid body guitar, and the bass notes just drove amps and speakers too hard. Even at bedroom levels. Test out the amps. Maybe a DR is more suited to your desired sound output?

[mr. beaumont]

Non reverb princeton. Much more clean headroom. Perfect jazz amp.

[roegtr]

I just got a Princeton Reverb ll from the early 80s. The low end is tighter than the prri and drri but it still has that Fender sparkle. It also has mid and presence controls. And a 12" speaker. All tube ptp amp. I`m quite excited about it and will post my findings after a few gigs!

[bmw2002]

I own (as my only amp) an Allen Sweet Spot, the specs of which seem to track what you're looking for. Princeton size (although mine has a 12" speaker), with 18 watts with 6v6 power tubes, and 25 watts with 6L6 tubes. I think it sounds fantastic with archtops, which until recently included a Schaefer 16 carved archtop with flat wound 13s. While I've owned the Allen, I've bought and sold a variety of excellent solid state amps (Quilter, Evans, Acoustic Image, Mambo), but keep coming back to the tubes. I'd also echo Mr. Beaumont's advice -- keep an eye out for an early '70's silverface Princeton non-reverb. Mine (sadly, sold but pictured below), had a removable baffle that allowed for a quick switch between a 10 inch and 12 inch speaker.

[rpguitar]

'79 SFPR here as my main amp... sounds GREAT with all of my archtops, which include 16", 17", and 18" carved guitars, floaters and set pickups.

[KirkP]

I've got a SoundIslandMusic/VSA V112-JZ20, which is basically a revoiced Princeton Reverb with upgraded transformers and a 12" speaker. It works great for any guitar with magnetic pickups, including archtops.

[wengr]

I own (as my only amp) an Allen Sweet Spot, the specs of which seem to track what you're looking for. Princeton size (although mine has a 12" speaker), with 18 watts with 6v6 power tubes, and 25 watts with 6L6 tubes. I think it sounds fantastic with archtops, which until recently included a Schaefer 16 carved archtop with flat wound 13s. While I've owned the Allen, I've bought and sold a variety of excellent solid state amps (Quilter, Evans, Acoustic Image, Mambo), but keep coming back to the tubes. I'd also echo Mr. Beaumont's advice -- keep an eye out for an early '70's silverface Princeton non-reverb. Mine (sadly, sold but pictured below), had a removable baffle that allowed for a quick switch between a 10 inch and 12 inch speaker.

Yes the Allen is in the mix under consideration. That is exactly what I am thinking of. Should I choose one - (leaning toward Vintage Sound made by Rick Hayes), I would need the verb and trem for use with my solid bodies.
It's very interesting to hear that you like the tone of the Allen with carved tops. The Vintage Sounds have 12" as well so I expect they are all in the ballpark.
However I just heard the online clips of the Ravine, and that may be spoiling me for anything else. If the clips are a good representation of the real thing, it's a beautiful tone imo.

[Eagle2x]

I have a PRRI which I upgraded the transformer to a fender Deluxe (Bill M mod) and added a 12" speaker. Great combination with the small Princeton size.

[wengr]

I've got a SoundIslandMusic/VSA V112-JZ20, which is basically a revoiced Princeton Reverb with upgraded transformers and a 12" speaker. It works great for any guitar with magnetic pickups, including archtops.

That's a Rick Hayes amp yes? Mr Hayes suggested I consider his 22w deluxe, and he would voice the first channel differently for me to better accomodate archtops. Sounds intruiging, but the deluxe and princeton cicuits sound different to me, and I really prefer the princeton.

[Greentone]

IMO, the Princeton and Princeton Reverb amps from the 60s and 70s are outstanding amps to use with archtop guitars (and with Fender solid-body and Gibson semi-acoustic guitars). They are two of the greatest sounding amps of all time that you can easily carry around. The 10" speaker is a real beauty--it does a superb job of showcasing the guitar.

My buddy that I have played in a duo with for 20 years typically plays through a Princeton Reverb. I have played my ES-175 or ES-335 many times through his amp. (He has both an old blackface and an old silverface.) Those guitars sound excellent into the PR. Honestly, I cannot tell much difference, in terms of sound, between the black and silver incarnations of the amp.

My Matsumoku copy of the Gibson Super-V also sounds great through the Princeton Reverb. I haven't yet tried either the Heritage Super Eagle or the Unity 100th Anniversary through it yet.

Overall, I would give the Princeton/Princeton Reverb about 9.5/10 for convenience; 9.5/10 for sound with archtops; 10/10 for reliability. It doesn't get much better than that.

[feet]

in my super limited, possibly invalid experience:

- i tried a current blackface prri when shopping for my byrdland a few years back. great tones, and i played it for hours. but there was a strange sort of buzz happening on some of the notes. it took me a while to realize that it was beginning to distort. like on two. with a byrdland. brand new amp, still had the tags on it. so although it was amazing, headroom might be an issue.

- i sat with a princeton non reverb from the late 60s once in a gc while chasing the tones i got when i was playing the byrdland. i thought the non reverb would be a clever way around the headroom issue. i plugged in and that thing was 100 straight oatmeal. it sucked. hard. the other guy in the room playing through a blues junior was getting sweet cleans that slaughtered it. as a control, i later plugged into the blues junior and yeah, it was better. i sincerely hope that princeton was a dud. that's what i wrote it off as, anyway.

so maybe give them a test run first, or get a return policy.

[Archtop addict]

Yes the Allen is in the mix under consideration. That is exactly what I am thinking of. Should I choose one - (leaning toward Vintage Sound made by Rick Hayes), I would need the verb and trem for use with my solid bodies.
It's very interesting to hear that you like the tone of the Allen with carved tops. The Vintage Sounds have 12" as well so I expect they are all in the ballpark.
However I just heard the online clips of the Ravine, and that may be spoiling me for anything else. If the clips are a good representation of the real thing, it's a beautiful tone imo.

I've never played a Headstrong or a Vintage Sound but I have both a Sequel Ravine and a PRRI. Both sound great with my archtops (carved tops, laminates, floaters, singles, humbuckers, you name it) - actually, they both sound awesome with my semis and solids, too. Between the two, I prefer the tone of the Ravine to the Princeton but the PRRI still gets plenty of use. The Fender is really 'classic' sounding and I find it easy to dial in tones I like. The Ravine pretty much sounds like the online clips and, to my ears, produces beautiful tone.

I also have an ES-165 - one of my favourite laminates and I find it sounds great with both amps. I don't spend a lot of time with my strats and teles anymore but a tele through a Princeton is a great pairing.

[zizala]

I've got a circa '70 silverface Princeton Reverb thats become a favorite......probably the one I'd keep if everything else had to go.
Mine's pretty much the stock circuit except for some necessary recent servicing.
I've also installed a 12" baffle and tried a few speakers. My favorites were a couple 60's Jensens (C12Q and C12N). They really suited the amp well and had terrific balance and sensitivity.
Recently a friend convinced me to try a 90's Fane Alnico he had for sale and thats the one thats staying!
I probably could have given 10" speakers more of a chance.....but I'm very happy with it as it is.

[Gitfiddler]

I just got a Princeton Reverb ll from the early 80s. The low end is tighter than the prri and drri but it still has that Fender sparkle. It also has mid and presence controls. And a 12" speaker. All tube ptp amp. I`m quite excited about it and will post my findings after a few gigs!

Another Princeton Reverb II owner here. It loves archtops, Teles, Strats, etc. as well as pedals.
To me they sound like the 20 watt love child of a Princeton Reverb and Deluxe Reverb.

My EV12L loaded PRII is an '86, one of the last production models.

[Jabberwocky]

As for the OP, wengr, you'd do well to talk to Michael Biller of Sound Island Music Jazz Guitar Amps | Jazz Tube Amps | Acoustic Image - Sound Island Music . Mike will set you on the right path. Michael Biller sells a version of the Rick Hayes Vintage Sound Blackface re-creations with a re-voiced jazz channel and higher clean headroom. If I am not mistaken, you could have it with a Hexfet diode solid-state rectifier that takes out the sag of a tube rectifier.

For tone, I much prefer the Princeton Reverb style circuit to the Deluxe Reverb or the 6L6 Fender amps. Something right about that design if you do not need a lot of volume. I wonder how a wall of Princeton Reverbs would sound.

(Have revised my thoughts regarding swapping the 10" for a 12" on a Princeton Reverb. Find a good 10" like a Celestion Gold, for instance. I find the 10" better for jazz as the bass is tauter and more defined without any of the flub of a 12".)

[Herbie]

in my super limited, possibly invalid experience:

- i tried a current blackface prri when shopping for my byrdland a few years back. great tones, and i played it for hours. but there was a strange sort of buzz happening on some of the notes. it took me a while to realize that it was beginning to distort. like on two. with a byrdland. brand new amp, still had the tags on it. so although it was amazing, headroom might be an issue.

- i sat with a princeton non reverb from the late 60s once in a gc while chasing the tones i got when i was playing the byrdland. i thought the non reverb would be a clever way around the headroom issue. i plugged in and that thing was 100 straight oatmeal. it sucked. hard. the other guy in the room playing through a blues junior was getting sweet cleans that slaughtered it. as a control, i later plugged into the blues junior and yeah, it was better. i sincerely hope that princeton was a dud. that's what i wrote it off as, anyway.

so maybe give them a test run first, or get a return policy.

Sounds like a normal tube amp, not a dud. Could be dud, of course. But could also be a great tube amp badly biased, an amp with bad tubes or an amp with a wrong speaker. Or all.

There is so much You can do with a tube amp to adjust the sound that short testing (say...under a year!) is a bit unfair.

[Archie]

I've found all tube amps to be very hit and miss with Archtops They seem to prefer laminates and the Princeton is no exception ime.

[Stringswinger]

I have a 64 Blackface Princeton (non-reverb) with a JBL D-110 (reconed with an original JBL kit). I use a vintage Mullard rectifier tube and JJ Power tubes and preamp tubes. I run my guitars through a Tone Candy Spring Fever reverb pedal with this amp.

While all of my electric guitars sound great through this amp, including my acoustic archtops with a Dearmond floater, at high volumes (the volume pot on the guitar dimed and the volume on the amp at 9 or 10), there is some breakup. I find the same issue with my 74 Deluxe reverb, though it can go pretty loud before breakup. While the two amps sound similar, the Princeton is by nature a bit warmer (I use a hemp cone speaker in the Deluxe to warm it up to the same tone as the Princeton).

There is a reason that in the old days, jazz guys wanted a Twin Reverb. At this point in life, I would rather deal with the vintage sound that a bit of breakup entails than carry a Twin. YMMV

[roegtr]

Another Princeton Reverb II owner here. It loves archtops, Teles, Strats, etc. as well as pedals.
To me they sound like the 20 watt love child of a Princeton Reverb and Deluxe Reverb.

My EV12L loaded PRII is an '86, one of the last production models.

Wow! That one looks real clean! I`m thinking of upgrading the speaker in mine, which is the original Fender labeled one. I may try either a Celesion 65w creamback or a Celestion g12k-85. The latter might be the best one for jazz.

[KirkP]

Another Princeton Reverb II owner here. It loves archtops, Teles, Strats, etc. as well as pedals.
To me they sound like the 20 watt love child of a Princeton Reverb and Deluxe Reverb.
My EV12L loaded PRII is an '86, one of the last production models.

I haven't tried the Princeton II, but the schematics show a phase inverter and power supply much closer to a Deluxe Reverb than a Standard Princeton Reverb, plus a solid state rectifier to minimize sag. No wonder it behaves more like a Deluxe.

[wengr]

I have learned a lot from this thread. I believe I will order a Vintage Sound 20w Princeton style amp.
I hope that the 20w, plus a 12" speaker will avoid any headroom issues with archtops. I don't play jazz with a drummer. I am a fingerstyle guy playing jazz at home only.
I love the clips of the Ravine. If money was no object I would order a Ravine, and commission something from Mr. Comins, and life would be good. But money is an object in a genre which earns me no money, so my thinking is this:
The VS20 should be great with strats and teles.
It should be good with laminates.
I don't know about carved tops, but if it is not satisfactory, I can always grab a small solid state amp and still be under the price of the Ravine.
It's not cheap, but will also take 6l6 for some versatility, and I think it will always find some use even if I eventually move beyond it for my archtop needs.
Thanks for all the input.

[docbop]

I have learned a lot from this thread. I believe I will order a Vintage Sound 20w Princeton style amp.
I hope that the 20w, plus a 12" speaker will avoid any headroom issues with archtops. I don't play jazz with a drummer. I am a fingerstyle guy playing jazz at home only.
I love the clips of the Ravine. If money was no object I would order a Ravine, and commission something from Mr. Comins, and life would be good. But money is an object in a genre which earns me no money, so my thinking is this:
The VS20 should be great with strats and teles.
It should be good with laminates.
I don't know about carved tops, but if it is not satisfactory, I can always grab a small solid state amp and still be under the price of the Ravine.
It's not cheap, but will also take 6l6 for some versatility, and I think it will always find some use even if I eventually move beyond it for my archtop needs.
Thanks for all the input.

If money is tight why buy a boutique amp you can get a Fender Reissue 65 or 68 Princeton or Deluxe for half that or less.

[wengr]

If money is tight why buy a boutique amp you can get a Fender Reissue 65 or 68 Princeton or Deluxe for half that or less.

While the few I've tried sounded decent, It's my personal preference to avoid the circuit boards and other internal components.