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" I will NEVER EVER GET TIRED OF THE LES PAUL....the best guitar ever invented. "
I've heard from many an LP player including my friend who is quoted above that LPs are actually more more capable for "Jazz" than teles.
Leo Fender designed a versatile guitar in the tele but is the LP better for Jazz??
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06-04-2017 02:26 PM
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Both are great for jazz. Les Paul invented it for jazz players, to eliminate the scourge of feedback. It was created to play jazz.
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The one I had sounded great with flatwounds but I ended up trading it because it has to be the most uncomfortable guitar in the world for playing while seated, which is how I mostly play and compose. My right thigh would go kinda numb after a while due to all the weight being concentrated in such a small area. Pity.
Regarding the Tele/LP thing, any player come to mind who elicited a nicer sound from a LP than Ed Bickert from his Telecaster?
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les paul generally used a guitar so unlespaul-like that i'm not sure it exactly counts, but i guess that also proves that it's possible. assuming you regard him as a jazz player. short of a spinal tap-like jazz odyssey i'm not sure a les paul would be my first choice for what people think of jazz. its weight and inherent sustain are generally considered negatives in that context.
but it is the awesomest guitar though and way super better than a tele, though. everyone knows that.
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I've only owned on Les Paul and sold it a year later. I never found it comfortable to play and for me that is paramount, I find the Tele very comfortable to play. Sound wise Les Paul is nice but like a Tele is has it limits. LP has the low end full ness, but not high end and note definition of a Tele. Tele has the clarity and high end, but for low end like a LP you have to muck with PUPs or the amp. Coming from a recording engineer background high end and note definition is more important than low end that can be added and sound more natural than trying to add high end. The LP's that I have liked all had P90's for more high end and chunkiness for rhythm.
LP's are nice, but I wouldn't call it the be all end all guitar. A Gibson that covers a lot of bases to me is the 335.
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Didn't Les Paul and Ted McCarty intend this to be a jazz guitar from the beginning? (And no, that is NOT Vladimir Putin standing behind the rack of guitars!)
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You will when you stand for 3 or 4 LONG SETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Don't like em. Nothing that small should be that heavy.
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I don't think the Les Paul was designed to be a Jazz guitar, Jazz/Swing was the popular music of the day. In fact I remember as a kid you could get used Les Paul's cheap for a couple hundred dollars they weren't popular guitars until 70's when Clapton and others started playing them. The Les Paul was created to solve the feedback problem more than a guitar for a genre of music. At least that's how I interpret the things I've read.
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Sadly, I think that is Putin. Hence, the rosewood crisis.
Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
Didn't Les Paul and Ted McCarty intend this to be a jazz guitar from the beginning? (And no, that is NOT Vladimir Putin standing behind the rack of guitars!)
I cannot compare LPs with Teles. They are more different than they are alike to me in practically every way.
My take is that LPs were introduced as versatile guitars at a time when overdrive and distortion weren't utilized very much, if at all. So, one natural market at the time was jazz guitarists for the practicality. I think what eventually happened was that LPs became utilized more and more for the heavier sounds of rock'n roll, while semi-hollows like the 335 were preferred by those that wanted the same kind of versatility as an LP, but lighter.
So, if someone asks me if I think that LPs are good for jazz, I would say "sure." If someone wants the same planked neck/block HB'ing guitar but lighter, I would suggest a semi-hollow.
P.S. Any guitar is good for jazz IMHO.Last edited by lammie200; 06-04-2017 at 04:52 PM.
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Originally Posted by lammie200
Sadly, I think that is Putin. Hence, the rosewood crisis.
P.S. Any guitar is good for jazz IMHO.
It seems there is some kind of ban on guitars with Rosewood frets from Japan. I got nixed on a bunch of guitars this past month.
That's why I sold mine 30 years ago. I didn't know what I had back then. I hope I didn't throw away something worth keeping. Originally Posted by jads57
You will when you stand for 3 or 4 LONG SETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The Les Paul model was not much of a success in the 50's and was discontinued in 1960 being replaced by the Les Paul SG in 1961. The original was too heavy in the 50's too, and wasn't a good match for 50's music styles. Les wasn't a fan of the new design and asked his name be removed from the SG.
In the mid-60's blues rock guitarists discovered the discontinued Les Paul Standard. Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, Keith Richards, Peter Green, Jimmy Page, etc. The new interest by blues rock players and their popularity led Gibson to re-introduce the Les Paul Standard and Les Paul Custom in 1968.
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"Before Guns and Roses, you could get a Les Paul for like, 50 bucks." Originally Posted by docbop
Thurston Moore
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Don't forget Mike Bloomfield who raised the LP into the realm of artistry electrified. Sure, he played a Tele too, and an LP with P90's at one point, but the best of his best was played and remembered on a '59 Burst with hum buckers.
Anyway, the above posts have it nailed! The LP is too heavy to be comfortable, sitting or standing. I don't think it has a "jazz" tone.
Some are much nicer than others in the tone dept. but overall...I'd take a Tele. Just more expressive if you have to settle for a "non-hollow" body sound. I'm a hollow body fan, even for electric blues. And I've had two LP's, and a few Tele's.
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Those are actually both right. The LP faded in the 60's and made a comeback with the British blues players. It then faded again in the 70's when all the shredder guitars were the rage (and they were selling those mostly awful Norlin LP's and less awful Deluxes with the mini-hums) and then came back again with Slash. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Last edited by Jim Soloway; 06-04-2017 at 05:52 PM.
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Too small, too heavy, too flashy if it is flamy and too overplayed. Not the best jazz guitar for me
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I've told this story before..
About 4 years ago, I did a coffee shop job on Saturday evenings. The room was terrible for a hollowbody. No matter which way i turned feedback wrestled me and my ES175 to the ground and kicked my ass. One night I took my LesPaul to work. It was a breath of fresh air. I cut through my backing tracks like butter with that beautiful Les Paul. And it's toney deep throatyness had jazz written all over it. The sustain virtually made the guitar play itself. Over picking stopped and I never slowed my self down. I was flying that night. I'll never forget it.
Another great guitar for live performance jazz is the ES135/137. It eliminates feedback and looks the part too.
But Jeff is right. Both the LP and the 135 are too heavy to have hanging off your neck for over an hour. Sorry, I'm getting too old for that.
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Les Paul played guitar the old fashioned way, with the butt end between his thighs. Played that way the guitar is well balanced played sitting down.
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This is my Les Paul;
It's a 1973 Les Paul Recording. It weights about 11lbs which by many accounts is "light" for one of these. It's used as a jazz guitar. There are situations where either it's too loud for an archtop, or where a punchier more sustaining sound might be better; that's when I use either this guitar or my Telecaster.
My Telecaster is a very good jazz guitar too, but the LP Recording is by far the better instrument. There's a million switches on the Les Paul- but it's not as complicated as it looks. The neck pickup is very woody and rich sounding; it sounds very 'Johnny Smith' to my ears, something I really didn't expect from a guitar bearing the name "Les Paul".
It can absolutely nail the sounds on the old Les Paul/Mary Ford records too.
The bridge pickup sounds like a fat telecaster pickup to my ears.
I'm glad that people shy away from these guitars, it means I could afford to buy one. This one will have to be pried from my cold, dead hands.Last edited by entresz; 06-05-2017 at 12:06 AM.
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I think you're all wet. What is the weight of a current L-5CES? Perhaps some of you could post that? They do not strike me as light guitars.
rpguitar posted the weight of his 1999 L-5CES on December 7, 2013 at 8.2 pounds.
While heavy Les Pauls have been made throughout the history of the model, including many stupidly heavy instrumens, things changed 25 years ago, and lightweight Les Pauls have been easy to come by since then, due to the use of lightweight wood and the introduction of chambered bodies. My Les Pauls (all built between 1994 and 2006) weigh between 7 and 8 1/2 pounds. One weighs just under 9 pounds.
None of them are my first choice for jazz. Nor are any other solid-body guitars, IMO. De gustubus non disputandum est.
Give me a nice carved spruce top, hollow-body guitar, with a floater or set-in pickup, anytime.Last edited by Hammertone; 06-05-2017 at 02:32 AM.
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Yeah, those are too heavy too. Originally Posted by Hammertone
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If IRC from a GP article (interview, I believe), Ted McCarty and company had a goal of 24 seconds of clean sustain, finally reached by the combination of quartersawn mahogany capped with flatsawn hard maple. Customs originally were all-mahogany, and by the time my '68 Custom was made, had gone to maple caps as well. When I acquired it for $200 in '78 or thereabouts, it had a severely cracked headstock, deep gouges from some lout's belt buckle, and to add insult to injury, the stop-tail had been jettisoned in favor of a big bolt-on Bigsby (because LPS aren't quite heavy enough). Oh, and the fretless wonder frets were pretty well shot. All-in-all, a fixer-upper, you might say.
Influenced by Pat Martino, I put on 0.15, 0.19p, 0.24p, 0.40, 0.50, and 0.60 strings, and played it through a Sunn Coliseum driving a 6-10" Traynor BassMate cabinet. Clean and mean. Later, a variety of Fenders and Marshalls came into play, along with a '55-'78 "Reissue" LP (slab mahogany body, P-something single coils), and finally, a Les Paul Special Junior (slab body) and 490s, if I am not mistaken. I should also mention the Epiphone LP with the quilted maple veneer and the Seymour Duncan pups.
I've never had a problem getting a mellow, mid-range-rich "jazzy" tone from any of them, when the occasion called for it, as it frequently did.
My grandson has the Custom and plays Metalsomething with it. You should hear him play jazz on drums. The kid is good.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
"Before Sonic Youth (Thurston Moore) you could get a Jazzmaster for like, 50 bucks"
MaxTwang
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Touche.
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I have had some Les Pauls including a PAF converted '52, a couple of 58RI and two standards.
I always tried to like them because they actually look great but I never found my sound.
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