How Can You Tell if a Guitar has been Refretted?

[Easy2grasp]

I've got a few vintage guitars and I think a couple of them have been refretted, but how can I tell? What are the telltale clues?

[helios]

I've got a few vintage guitars and I think a couple of them have been refretted, but how can I tell? What are the telltale clues?

If the particular guitar model originally came with binding covering the tips of the frets, and the guitar in question no longer has any such binding, that's one clue.

[LtKojak]

I've got a few vintage guitars and I think a couple of them have been refretted, but how can I tell? What are the telltale clues?

Why is this important to you?

[Easy2grasp]

Why is this important to you?

Just the facts Kojak. No need for a cross examination.


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[LtKojak]

Just the facts

Facts? Ok. What guitars? There are several telltales that are specific for the different types construction and materials.

Having said that, apart of the easy one being the nibs, which BTW are only present on Gibson instruments, if a refret's been made well, there shouldn't be any telltales. Specially after it's passed some time.

These are facts. Now, why is it important to know if a guitar/s you already possess have been refretted? A motivation must be, or I don't think you've asked the question in the first place.

As they say, "The road to Hell's is paved with good intentions", therefore I'm curious to know what motivates people to do what they do.

If you don't mind me asking, of course.

[Easy2grasp]

No reason, then?

No reason except to gain knowledge. I don't want to beat the dead horse re does a refret affect the value of a vintage guitar. I think that was hashed out here a few years ago.

I guess I could just Google it, but that defeats the purpose of a forum. I'm thinking maybe someone has some pearls of wisdom here.



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[Alter]

Resale value, and being honest with future buyers would be two other reasons

[Ray175]

@Kojak
To my certain knowledge, Gretsch also use nibs - see here for an example from another forum. there may be other manufacturers

Gap between frets and binding on my CS Gretsch - requires fixing?
:
General tech questions :
The Gretsch Pages

[ThatRhythmMan]

If done well, it can be essentially impossible to tell just by looking, unless the frets are noticeably different than what the guitar would have originally had. The lack of nibs on my Gibson Johnny Smith are a dead giveaway, but so are the EVO Gold frets.

Unlike my Johnny Smith, if great care isn't taken when pulling the old frets, small (or even large) chips can be pulled out of the fretboard wood. See the pic I've attached.

[sgosnell]

Sometimes it's easy to tell, such as chips in the fretboard, different frets, etc. But it's not always possible to be certain. As long as the refret was done properly, it shouldn't affect the value except to possibly raise it, because worn out frets should reduce the value. But some people are unreasonable about values and what affects them. I wouldn't let a refret bother me at all, unless it was poorly done.

[jazzbow]

If done well, it can be essentially impossible to tell just by looking, unless the frets are noticeably different than what the guitar would have originally had. The lack of nibs on my Gibson Johnny Smith are a dead giveaway, but so are the EVO Gold frets.

Unlike my Johnny Smith, if great care isn't taken when pulling the old frets, small (or even large) chips can be pulled out of the fretboard wood. See the pic I've attached.

Is that really the level of finishing for a refret!? That's really bad work.

It's not too hard to rectify. Heat and pull the frets, any chips just glue them.

Or if the chips ping off of the work bench then....



Chips on a fingerboard


Some wood dust from the same wood pushed through super glue into the chip


Sand it back! No chips

I went back to night school to learn instrument repair because some hack f'upped my treasured acoustic fingerboard with a polishing wheel.

[ThatRhythmMan]

Is that really the level of finishing for a refret!? That's really bad work.

No way to know who to blame or when in the last 80 years that this was done. The guitar plays extremely well though.

[LtKojak]

@Kojak
To my certain knowledge, Gretsch also use nibs - see here for an example from another forum. there may be other manufacturers

Gap between frets and binding on my CS Gretsch - requires fixing?
:
General tech questions :
The Gretsch Pages

Great!

I stand corrected, then. Gretsch also use nibs... which I think it'ìs a bad idea, but hey! Can't argue with tratition, can we?

[Easy2grasp]

Having said that, apart of the easy one being the nibs, which BTW are only present on Gibson instruments, if a refret's been made well, there shouldn't be any telltales. Specially after it's passed some time.

Let's talk Gibsons...
So I assume by "nibs" you mean the bumps of binding material that terminate the fret ends. I see these on my '92 Gibson ES165 and my '55 Super 400. Does that mean these fat frets on the Super 400 are original? Why nibs? Why not nubs? Nibs are those things on the end of ink pens. I think these guitars have the original nubs.
On one of my '57 ES175's I can see the tang of the fret end embedded in the binding, on my other '57 ES175 I can't see the tang. Does this mean that the one showing the tang is a refret? My '70's Gibson flat top shows the tang through the binding and I am pretty sure I had it refretted about 25 years ago. So is a tang showing through the binding an indicator of a refret? Wait a minute - Tang is that drink that astronauts drink. Do I mean tongue?

If you don't mind me asking, of course.

[Jabberwocky]

And then there is this, too: Gibson Refret: Saving Binding Nibs Finger Lakes Guitar Repair

I'd just use white paint from Humbrol, I guess...

[jazzbow]

Gibson frets go to the edge of the fingerboard and the edge binding is filed down to the fretboard and the nibnubs are shaped from the frets

Fret tango-tongues showing through the binding edge is not the desired effect.

Cutting the tango-tongue at the fret edge to carry the fret crown over the binding is acceptable.

A proper refret on a Gibson would require the binding to come off and the either glued back on after new frets are seated or closely matched with new binding. This is the expensive artisan luthier effort.

It all depends of the guitar value. A real hack job on a desirable vintage instrument devalues it!

[ptchristopher3]

Gibson frets go to the edge of the fingerboard and the edge binding is filed down to the fretboard and the nibnubs a.

[...] A real hack job on a desirable vintage instrument devalues it!

Hi Roy,

Hope your summer goes well. Is it possible to still actually "Ferry 'Cross the Mersey'?

Of course there is the possible interpretation that Gibson factory fretting practices - resulting in the nibs/nubs are a hack job to begin with. This requiring extensive work to preserve the hack-o-sity.

Some relatively modern Gibsons will show some remarkably rough finishes on the FB surface itself yet be factory original work. Again not a practical problem when making jazz noises,

To the OP: Nibs notwithstanding, it is most often possible to spot a re-fret via fingerboard artifacts like chips (sloppy and a hack thing to leave, but not a practical playing problem really), or the very clear non-factory finish on each fret end.

But that varies with makers. Many well built Hofner guitars show very individual attention to the shaping of each fret end, while larger volume producers do not show this, and some superb production guitars (Collings for example) exhibit incredible consistency and individual attention to detail.

But many fine re-frets can be spotted via repaired or filled chips and the characteristic bench-luthier fret end finish. Nothing wrong with this at all.

In my opinion.

Chris

[docbop]

If the fretboard is lighter in color than you normal see for a guitar of it's age. Many luthiers will clean up the fretboard after the frets are out, I always ask for it to be done. I have them lightly sand the fretboard to clean it up.

[deacon Mark]

You cannot always know about a refret any more than a guitar being refinished at some point. The experts claim they can tell a refin and use "blue light" as the secret. I can tell you experts do not know everything.

[Longways to Go]

I'm perfectly happy to find a guitar with a good refret.

Also, I'm not a fan of the Gibson plastic nubs.

[lammie200]

You might also want to look at the thickness of the fret board. Sometimes people sand them down to remove gouges when refretting.

[docbop]

You might also want to look at the thickness of the fret board. Sometimes people sand them down to remove gouges when refretting.

or to change the fretboard radius a little.

[icr]

I've got a few vintage guitars and I think a couple of them have been refretted, but how can I tell? What are the telltale clues?

Hard to know without pictures.

[NSJ]

A guitar that's been re-fretted? Oh the ghastly horror of it all! Terrible, who can imagine such a thing.

Reminds of the story of the family that backed out on purchasing a used car not because it had 200,000 miles on it, but the fact someone took the original tires out and....are you sitting down... REPLACED them with new ones at some horrible point in the vehicle's history!!!!! My God, does that mean that the car has actually been DRIVEN??

Can you imagine buying a guitar to play it, and play it and play it some more? Until a re-fret was deemed necessary? Unbelievable!

What a horrible thing to contemplate on the bottom line--a possible financial return on the investment!!

I must confess: I followed the Max4605's exact instructions in getting my Gibson HR Custom refretted! Perhaps the resale value has taken a big hit, and yet, still I can't STOP playing it, it's so GOOD, now! Gasp!

[MaxTwang]

Nothing wrong with replacing tiny vintage frets with something a little larger and tweaking the fretboard radius to make the guitar more playable. Fender's finally figured that out and now uses 9.5" radius and 6105 frets on their 50s & 60s Custom Shop guitars.