Acoustic Archtop vs Maccaferri guitar

**Frank67** · 08-19-2017, 06:13 PM

Dear friends,

a little comparison between two nice guitars - an acoustic archtop and a Maccaferri guitar. The comparison is not entirely fair since in terms of acoustic volume, the archtop cannot keep up, despite the fact that it is optimized for acoustic volume. However, they occupy quite different parts of the sonic spectrum. From the feel, I prefer the archtop (even though I do not play it well here; I got thrown off by switching back and forth and should have played differently, with a much more gently touch). Anyways, no excuses, maybe one of the other of you finds this interesting.

**neatomic** · 08-19-2017, 06:28 PM

very cool...just remember though, mic placement makes huge difference...the differences between the two guitars could be minimized or maximized by judicious mic placement

and that's aside from strings and setup issues on the guitars themselves

the marvelous thing about guitars...infinite possibilities..

cheers

**Frank67** · 08-19-2017, 06:36 PM

True, I did not make much effort optimizing mic placement (nor do I know much about it). The mic is probably (apart from how I play) the weakest spot here as I have no mic for proper acoustic recording. I tried a few things with a SM57, a SM58, a lavallier mic and also an LR Baggs preamp. The SM58 direct to the interface sounded, by a small margin, the most natural to me.

The setup is similar for both guitars (as is the neck profile per my request), though the archtop probably has a tad lower action than it should have for acoustic playing.

The strings are obviously very different and either set of strings would sound bad on the other guitar.

**neatomic** · 08-19-2017, 06:51 PM

just to be clear, was in no way criticizing..just saying that mic placement (and both shure 57 or 58 are very capable mics)...can account for major differences in recorded tones

there is a huge difference in acoustic or room tone and recorded tone...

the great producers and engineers tried to maximize both...capturing the acoustic tone that the player hears (and inspires) and incorporating that into the recorded tone

when people complain that old jazz guitar tones sound like mud..many times its not due to the way the guitar player was actually hearing it, but how it was recorded..and the lack of understanding between the two

fortunately nowadays playing the guitar and recording the guitar have become very much more symbiotic

cheers

**helios** · 08-19-2017, 07:43 PM

Thanks for sharing the video! I've come to appreciate the Slemer-Maccaferri style of guitar after listening to Bireli Lagrene and the Rosenberg trio on YouTube, I think yours sounds great.

**rlrhett** · 08-19-2017, 08:05 PM

Getting a good acoustic archtop tone is so rewarding and yet so elusive. I preferred the archtop over the Selmer, but of course am left with wanting more clarity, more fullness, and more volume.

**citizenk74** · 08-19-2017, 08:08 PM

I think both guitars sounded great. The perceived relative output difference may have to do with the archtop generally being louder at 15' than it is at 15", whereas if I am not mistaken, the opposite may be true of the Maccaferri. Better-informed people than myself may have a different opinion.

Also, the video transitions were very well done. Thanks for posting this!

**Frank67** · 08-20-2017, 01:57 AM

Thank you very much for the nice comments everybody!

I am just trying to learn how to edit video and I am having a lot of fun fiddling with Final Cut Pro. I actually recorded a second close up camera angle with my iPhone, but I could not align the audio properly as the alignment changed over the duration of the clip. Strange! That is why none of it is in there.

So, I am curious - could the knowledgeable of you comment how to properly mic an acoustic guitar for recording? I guess the pros use at least two different microphones, one of which should be a condenser, right? I already found it quite challenging to maintain a somewhat consistent position relative to the mic and then having these headphones that are always in the way. My experience with on board microphones has not been great either (little volume and a lot of feedback).

In terms of the guitars, I guess I liked the sound of the gypsy guitar a bit better, but not by a large margin. But the archtop is certainly easier to play. Also, through an amp, the de'Armond pickup sounds quite nice and both guitars have an capable on board piezo (a Bigtone). But hearing a piezo always makes me want to turn off the amp :-) here I just wanted to see how everything sounds without any amp or effects.

**Fred Archtop** · 08-20-2017, 06:00 AM

Hi Frank,

Nice video and editing.

I user to record a lot my acoustic flattops in my home studio, and the sweet spots for a nice rendition was a mike in front of the 12th fret, roughly at 20 cm.

I haven't work out that much with my archtops but putting a mike in front of a f-hole gives you more bass.

Also the mike you're using will make a huge difference. It seems that you are using a SM58 or smthg equivalent. A cardoid with a large diaphragm such as a Rode NT1A would give you more in the low medium and bass range.

Keep on the good work.

Cheers.

**citizenk74** · 08-20-2017, 07:50 AM

Here's an off-the wall suggestion: many years ago I did an EP of acoustic guitar and vocals. Much to the surprise of the engineer, I insisted on forgoing electronic effects, instead having him mic the L-48 and also the glass of the control booth for a hint of plate-like reverb. The results had a nice "roomy" quality. Alas, the tapes of the session are long gone. I've still got the L-48.

**Alter** · 08-20-2017, 08:27 AM

They both sounded very characteristic of the corresponding idioms. I preferred the Maccaferri personally, cause i like this type of unplugged sound better than that of unplugged archtops. When recording, i 've found mic placement to be one of the most important factors, move the mic a bit, and you got a completely different sound.

Loved the gypsy guitar sound, but couldn't get over the extra long scale mine had, so i ended up trading it.

**Cavalier** · 08-20-2017, 10:42 AM

This video illustrates the guitar problem perfectly. It isn't a matter of one or the other. The tones are different enough that obviously anybody would need both! I liked the archtop a bit better for the rhythm in this setting as the mid range and reduced highs gave a warm, not dominating supporting voice. In a busy band I might choose differently.

**Frank67** · 08-20-2017, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Fred Archtop

Hi Frank,

Nice video and editing.

I user to record a lot my acoustic flattops in my home studio, and the sweet spots for a nice rendition was a mike in front of the 12th fret, roughly at 20 cm.

I haven't work out that much with my archtops but putting a mike in front of a f-hole gives you more bass.

Also the mike you're using will make a huge difference. It seems that you are using a SM58 or smthg equivalent. A cardoid with a large diaphragm such as a Rode NT1A would give you more in the low medium and bass range.

Keep on the good work.

Cheers.

Many thanks Fred! I have seen many of your lovely videos and I always enjoyed your very tasteful playing!

I will experiment a bit with mic position as I kind of like the the acoustic sound of the guitar. Thanks for pointing me towards the Rode NT1A. I do not know anything about mic's, but I do know that it is easy to spend a fortune on one. So I am happy to hear that this one will get the job done (and it is not crazy expensive).

Cheers!

**Frank67** · 08-20-2017, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by citizenk74

Here's an off-the wall suggestion: many years ago I did an EP of acoustic guitar and vocals. Much to the surprise of the engineer, I insisted on forgoing electronic effects, instead having him mic the L-48 and also the glass of the control booth for a hint of plate-like reverb. The results had a nice "roomy" quality. Alas, the tapes of the session are long gone. I've still got the L-48.

That is way cool! I would have never thought of something like that. But it is liberating to play without electronic effects. I am also a pedal board geek and enjoy toying around with electronic gadgets, but sometimes it is really really nice if its just guitars and fingers. This morning I was spending two hours on the archtop and was experiment with different ways to pick and that was a lot of fun.

Enjoy your L-48!

**Frank67** · 08-20-2017, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Alter

They both sounded very characteristic of the corresponding idioms. I preferred the Maccaferri personally, cause i like this type of unplugged sound better than that of unplugged archtops. When recording, i 've found mic placement to be one of the most important factors, move the mic a bit, and you got a completely different sound.

Loved the gypsy guitar sound, but couldn't get over the extra long scale mine had, so i ended up trading it.

Thank you very much for this comment Alter! I can see what you are saying. The gypsy guitar is really cutting through like butter. I can, at times, be a bit shrill but the one I have is a really nice one. But I feel one has to dig in quite a bit to make it sing. I guess that through me off a bit yesterday as I was playing the archtop way too ham-fisted in an unconscious attempt to get similar volume out of it. it sounds nicer a bit more mellow. When I was playing it this morning without having the sound of the Maccaferri in my ear it was really pleasant to experiment with different picking techniques and dynamics and it responded really well.

**Frank67** · 08-20-2017, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Cavalier

This video illustrates the guitar problem perfectly. It isn't a matter of one or the other. The tones are different enough that obviously anybody would need both! I liked the archtop a bit better for the rhythm in this setting as the mid range and reduced highs gave a warm, not dominating supporting voice. In a busy band I might choose differently.

Many thanks for this comment Cavalier! It is true - these guitars just sound very different and both have their place in the sonic spectrum. If I had to choose a combination, I think I would choose like you and play the melody on the Maccaferri and the rhythm on the archtop.

... but of course, one "absolutely needs" both options :-) ... oh, and the electric variety ... not speaking of the solid bodies ... mmh, and there are a few nice semis to have ... guitars are just so much fun! But I am basically done buying guitars and I am definitely done buying archtops. I think I have everything I could possibly want (and then some), I am out of space and in the first place, I should focus on practicing more

**Fred Archtop** · 08-20-2017, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by FrankLearns

Many thanks Fred! I have seen many of your lovely videos and I always enjoyed your very tasteful playing!

I will experiment a bit with mic position as I kind of like the the acoustic sound of the guitar. Thanks for pointing me towards the Rode NT1A. I do not know anything about mic's, but I do know that it is easy to spend a fortune on one. So I am happy to hear that this one will get the job done (and it is not crazy expensive).

Cheers!

Never spend much on a mic, only guitars deserve that !

Rode NT1A does a fine job for recording any acoustic source. Basically each microphone brand has a cheap cardioid or condenser mic that will work fine. Shure SM81 is also great but more expensive if I recall correctly.

Cheers.