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Recently I had a chance to play a friends Heritage Johnny Smith Guitar. I was mesmerized by the wonderful acoustic quality and tone of this guitar! It was full, loud and beautiful! Until playing this guitar I was looking at the Heritage Super Eagle or Eagle classic as my likely top choices for a quality guitar down the road. After playing a number of guitars and sizes I have come to the conclusion I need a "big body" guitar. I am sure part of this is from my many years of playing a Martin D-18, the bigger size is just more comfortable against my body. In addition to sounding beautiful the Johnny Smith fit my body like a glove!
So my question for you folks that have played or own one of these high quality archtops which would you, or do you favor and why? I know this is a very subjective question but I would love to hear some opinions about these guitars in comparison to each other. I will be looking at purchasing one of these as a used guitar and figured the price for either of these used guitars in good condition will be close to the same? What kind of cost would I be looking at for a used Guitar in good condition? I am pretty sure I couldn't go to far wrong with either guitar
Thanks, in the meantime I will be dreaming of that day big time ! Bill
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08-28-2017 01:07 AM
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I'm no Heritage expert, and there are plenty on the forum-surprised you haven't been swamped with replies!
However I did own a Golden Eagle I purchased new from Jay Wolfe in the mid-nineties and have played both instruments you are considering. Guess the big question-Super Eagle is 18" and the JS is 17". Comfortable with a 18" guitar? Also, although there are variations, most Super Eagles I have encountered have followed the Super 400 CES model with two built in pickups, while the JS is a floater. Different animals-but both excellent in their own way.
I did enjoy my Golden Eagle very much. That might be another option as I don't think as many JS's were produced as the Golden Eagle and they are very similar guitars. I just never bonded with my GE but it was a great guitar.
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A very nice SE is for sell right now in the For Sale section here for a great price by a very trusted member.
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You know the bout size of Martin D-series is just under 16" so they aren't a big body compared to big body archtops that are 18". A 16" body is like a 175 and many other archtops and semi-hollows, they are like your D-18. So you probably should try to play a 18" archtop if you haven't already to get a feel for the size.
For me personally I have a 18" archtop I rarely play because I grow tired of the size quickly, I prefer my smaller body guitars more.
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Heritage has had the Super Eagle in regular production since the mid-'80's. The Johnny Smith production was very limited and is currently out of production, making it much more rare and collectible. Also, the JS has a 25" scale vs. the SE's 25.5" scale.
More important is that you played a Heritage JS and said it "fit your body like a glove...". If it were me, I'd start looking for the right Johnny Smith to buy.
Heritage Johnny Smith The Rose – Baton Rouge Music Exchange
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Thanks for sharing your experience with your Golden Eagle. I do know the Johnny Smith (17") I played felt very comfortable in my arms regarding its size. From another post to this thread I guess it is hard to compare my Martin D-18 size with an equivalent Arch top size. From your experience playing both instruments would the Golden Eagle being 18 inch size be noticeably larger? That old saying you should always play an instrument before buying it is a good one assuming you can find one to play. I sure wish there was a place to sit down and play these instruments side by side. Thanks again! Bill
Originally Posted by SierraTango
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Hey Bill, I've had the opportunity to play a GE and JS side by side. I've owned a '93 GE for many years and love it. The JS I played was blonde and owned by a buddy of mine who let me test drive it. Man, I wish I had made him an offer on the spot for that fine archtop!
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As far as the "fit" of the guitar, there is very little difference among the HJS and Eagles, the exception being the Super Eagle.
The Heritage JS is 1/2" shorter than the Eagles. That's a very small difference. The wider nut of the HJS is a more noticeable difference. That said, I personally have no problem switching between a 1 11/16" and 1 3/4" nut.
The Super Eagle is longer and wider. Still, the differences are not dramatic.
Moving to a Super 400 is longer still and deeper.
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More important is that you played a Heritage JS and said it "fit your body like a glove...". If it were me, I'd start looking for the right Johnny Smith to buy.
[/QUOTE]
That makes a lot of sense, Thanks!
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Not to throw a monkey wrench in here, however there are a lot of very, very fine 17" archtops w/floating pickups at the 5K price point or less. I personally wouldn't drop the dime without test driving a Guild Artist Award. I was very fond of mine...
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There is a fine Super Eagle for sale right here on the forum. If I was looking for one, that would be the one I would buy.
There is this HJS 1997 Heritage Guitar Johnny Smith - Guitar - Gryphon Stringed Instruments-
I played that HJS and did not love it but YMMV. Gryphon allows an approval period.
A Dreadnaught may be a 16 inch bout, but they are pretty thick. My experience is that an ES-175 feels small in the lap compared to a Dread. I think a Super 400 (though 18 inches) feels similarly large compared to a Dread.
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SS once again hits the nail on the head. IIRC depth on most 17" archtops is around 3 to 3 1/2". A D model Martin what 4" or so? Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Also, I believe Mr. Marc is the owner of a Guild AA-I will point out the AA is a longer scale than the JS.
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Also, I have a 1980 Gibson Johnny Smith listed on the forum that I would take $5500 for.
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I would sure be checking this out-just came on the FS section of the forum:
FS: 1971 Guild Artist Award Blonde with original DeArmond 1100
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But a Martin D is (I believe) nearly 5"(!) deep. My own opinion is that the huge depth is much more uncomfortable than a guitar that is wider across the bout but narrower. Those dreads just hang your arm out to dry! Originally Posted by docbop
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Heading down to Gryphon to check out that Heritage JS! Thanks everybody for your comments! Bill Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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I owned a Heritage JS for several years, but because of my small size and some shoulder problems I had to give up on 17" guitars. Without a doubt it had the of the most comfortable neck profiles of any of my guitars (even with the wider nut width), superb soft playing action, and it's tone was awesome.
Some people rag on the pickup, but I thought it was fine. However if you want to change it, Kent A makes a version of his hand-made PAF that is a perfect drop-in fit for the heritage cover. You don't have to change the mounting brackets or anything.Last edited by Woody Sound; 08-28-2017 at 03:19 PM.
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Kismet! Just what you were looking for right in your backyard...well almost. Best of luck and if you do pull the trigger make sure to do a "NGD" here. Originally Posted by Bluegrass Bill Ward
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I would go with the Super Eagle or Golden Eagle because I have become a 25.5" scale player.
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Thanks ST Originally Posted by SierraTango
I have owned a few Guild AA's (Still have one, a Guild Benedetto variant)
AA's started life as a 24.75 scale guitar, became 25.5 in the late 60's, in the late 80's became 25 5/8 (the same scale as many Guild acoustics) and the last batch made in New Hartford were back to the 24.75.
The Heritage and Gibson Johnny Smith guitars were 25 inch scales, the same as Johnny Smith's D'Angelico. Some of the artist Awards were called Johnny Smith Awards (The original name for the Guild model). The ones made in the 50's were 24.75 and the ones made in the early 2000's were 25 5/8.
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The link on the Gryphon listing says "sold." Check the script to the right of the 1997 title description.
RE HJS or SE, having owned each, and several SE's, my choice would depend upon whether I preferred an acoustic versus an electric tone. The HJS is much brighter in tonality than an SE, or ever a GE.
There's a superb, and rare, single humbucker SE for sale on Reverb. If I was still in the market I'd have purchased it months ago. Best of luck!
Heritage Super Eagle 2005 Sunburst | Mark's Gear Bazaar | Reverb
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Hi 2Born, Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
If I didn't have my Super KB (which I really like) I would have bought this one by now, as I have been watching it for a while now.
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Both are terrific guitars. I'd go with the Johnny Smith. You are gonna laugh but my reasoning is simple. The label is hand signed by one of the greatest guitar players who ever lived.
You cant go wrong with either guitar.
Play them if you can. You need to be comfortable with the neck carve.
Joe D
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I am now the proud owner of a beautiful looking and sounding Heritage Johnny Smith Archtop! Originally Posted by Stringswinger
I went down to Gryphons music store in Palo Alto where they had one and spent an hour playing the guitar they had there. It was magic, I immediately fell in love with the feel and sound of it both acoustically and plugged in! Thanks Stringswinger for the lead on this guitar being there! I’ll have some pictures to show tomorrow.
This is my first quality archtop. Tomorrow I will be going down to Guitar Center here in Sac to return the D’Angelico EXL-1 guitar I purchased rom their used inventory about 2 weeks ago. They have a good return deal in that you have 45 days to return a guitar if you decide it’s not a good fit for you. As much as I tried to convince myself that guitar would work for me I knew in my heart it was not going to give me any real joy in playing it. This new (used) Heritage Johnny Smith will most definitely be a joy to play every time I pick it up!
Thank you all for your comments and encouragement. I’ll have some more questions about this guitar I am sure. It’s actually the first “electric” guitar I have ever owned.
Thanks again! Bill
Last edited by Bluegrass Bill Ward; 08-29-2017 at 12:47 AM.
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Congrats Bill, I am glad you found a guitar that works for you. Looking forward to your NGD.
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