How much wattage do you need?

[jzucker]

There has been much debate around here about just how much wattage is necessary with many folks saying that a 22w deluxe reverb has enough power. I went to hear my buddy Dave Stryker last weekend with guitar, drums, hammand b3 and saxophone.

Dave uses a Twin Reverb. It was turned up well beyond half way and was slightly overdriven. A deluxe reverb or 50W SS amp just couldn't keep up with the volume of what they are playing.

That's why I like 100W ss or 50w tube as the minimum!

[JazzNote]

I like to have at least 200W ss, prefer to hook up two speakers in order to get 400W so i can get an ultra-clean sound with no distortion at all and plenty of headroom.

[jads57]

It depends on a couple of things like tube vs solid state, preamp design and tubes. There is no fast hard rules that seem to apply to all designs. A Twin is actually only 85 watts and although it's usually the Gold Std for Tube Clean tone, I find it usually breaks up when pushed past halfway. When I use to play really loud I had a Mesa Mk 3 100 watt through an EV 12L which worked really well for clean.

Now that I play at more reasonable volumes the Quilter Aviator 1x12" Combo does exactly what I need for Clean!

[John A.]

There has been much debate around here about just how much wattage is necessary with many folks saying that a 22w deluxe reverb has enough power. I went to hear my buddy Dave Stryker last weekend with guitar, drums, hammand b3 and saxophone.

Dave uses a Twin Reverb. It was turned up well beyond half way and was slightly overdriven. A deluxe reverb or 50W SS amp just couldn't keep up with the volume of what they are playing.

That's why I like 100W ss or 50w tube as the minimum!

I don't think there's a blanket answer to this. It depends on how loud other instruments get (especially drums, but also something like a B3 + Leslie), if you can't mic the amp) how big a room you need to fill, how loud you actually want the band to be, how much distortion you can live with and/or want, etc. I know you're not going to believe this, but I've been using a Fender Champion 20 (20 watt modeling amp with an 8" speaker) at a jam I attend in a roughly 25-30 seat room in a bar. It absolutely can hang with keys, a drummer, bass, and a couple of horns, granted with a little dirt in the tone when soloing. My "big" amp now is a Princeton Reverb; for me, it's loud enough to hang with piano, drums, bass, and a sax in a rehearsal space or small club. I can definitely envision situations where it wouldn't cut it, but I'm never in those situations anymore.

As another point of reference, a year or so ago I saw Paul Bollenback with an organ, drums, and sax through a Deluxe Reverb. Plenty loud for that stage and room.

John

[Cunamara]

It depends on your playing situation. Tiny club? Dance hall? Open air stage? Stadium? Halfway up on a Twin is effin' loud. I've never had to be that loud even back in my blues and rock days, let alone playing jazz.

I probably would no longer even go hear a band as loud as the one Jack is describing- I would have to wear hearing protection and that takes a lot of the fun out of it. At 57 I am not into loud music any more; I'd like to be able to hear without hearing aids when I'm 67. When I heard Larry Goldings, Pete Bernstein and Bill Stewart at the Dakota, that was as loud as I would care to hear any more and louder than I care to play.

In my band (quintet- drums, bass, guitar, sax, trumpet) my tweed Deluxe (~15-20 watts?) with a Cannabis Rex is plenty- indeed, too much to use with an archtop due to feedback. The drummer, bassist and myself balance to the horns by listening to them. I never run the amp volume knobs above 3 and usually the guitar volume is rolled back a bit- with my GB10, rolled back a lot 'cuz those pickups are hot. Even when a guy sat in with us on B3, he kept it quiet enough for all the instruments to be heard. But that is a tiny coffee house. At a bar we used to play at, that volume- limited by the horns- made us inaudible about 15 feet away and we needed a PA.

My Clarus 2r is what, 400 watts or something? That runs into an RE 12" cab. It's not really a whole lot louder than my Deluxe until it's close to flat out.

My ~1971-72 Pro Reverb (with 2 JBLs, can't even pick the thing up any more without hurting my back; to think I used to happily haul it up and down stairs to my apartment without a second thought) is crazy loud. What's that, 40-50 watts?

So it depends on the demands of the playing situation. Jack, for example, may find himself playing in much louder situations than I ever will and thus needs higher wattage amps.

[JazzNote]

My Clarus 2r is what, 400 watts or something? That runs into an RE 12" cab. It's not really a whole lot louder than my Deluxe until it's close to flat out.

The Clarus 2r is 200W with one speaker of 8ohms, to get 400W you need 2 speakers.

[GNAPPI]

A Twin (or any other Fender 100w tube chassis) is like a big 8 cylinder engine, GREAT to have when you NEED power but a bitch to feed gas (or muscles in the case of the amp) when the power isn't needed.

A Twin can be slimmed down, this is what I did to mine.


How to lose 20+ lbs of amp fat

[Jim Soloway]

The most obvious answer is "it depends". What is the size of the room? What is the size of the band? How loud is the music? Is there a PA? Will the amps be mic'd? Do you want to stay clean or get breakup? How loud is the drummer? etc. I'm using a Bud and it's almost certainly loud enough for any circumstance I'm likely to play.

[beetle_rist]

Well I have a 15W tube head/ cab w/ 12" speaker. It's definitely enough to get by it doesn't bother me at all, but a little bit more extra clean headroom would be nice. So I would have to agree with you that 50W solid-state minimum for clean headroom.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm definitely going with "it depends". I'm mostly a rock player and so lower wattages work for me insofar as distortion becomes part of my equation. But even back in my shredder days, I plugged into a silverface Bassman which didn't distort until 8 or so (and when it did it sounded awful! I got my dirt from a pedal) because I like being able to get loud and clean.

As a result, my favorite sort of rig revolves around a high-wattage Fender fed by a great dirtbox and with a volume pedal in there to adjust things on the fly without taking fingers away from strings.

If I were jamming jazz with a band, I'd live with a little hair on the sound and probably max out with 40w through tubes, or 100 through ICs for a cleaner sound.

[alfont]

Twin reverb!

Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk

[pingu]

Wattage as a measure of power is not a linear
relationship to loudness

To get 3 more db (which is a bit louder but not much)
you have to double the amp power !

So a 100watt Marshall is only a bit louder than a 50

Also 20watt amp with a 6db more efficient speaker
will be as loud as an 80watt amp

Just stuff to add into the equation ...

[Greentone]

Boy, does it depend. I have amps from 5 watts into 8" speaker, up to 150 watts into two 12" speakers. Generally, a 15 watt Fender tweed Deluxe will do. However, a big outside gig will require more muscle. A Twin Reverb comes in handy.

[vintagelove]

Speaker efficiency matters a lot in this equation


That being said, at least 50w.


god only knows what that equals in SS watts. 200?

[Stringswinger]

I have a few different rigs that I use:

My main rig is an AI Clarus into a RE Stealth 10 (200 Watts solid State)

My backup rig is a Polytone Minibrain into a RE Stealth 10 (120 Watts solid State)

My portable "urban gig" rig is an AER Compact 60 (60 Watts solid State)

and then there is my "specialty" rig. a 1964/65 Non Reverb Fender Princeton with a late 60's JBL D-110F used with a Tone Candy Spring fever pedal (a reverb pedal with a built in volume boost). (15 watts tube power). I used this rig last night on a drummerless Western Swing gig and I used it on a violin led Gypsy jazz gig in a large noisy room last week (with a quiet drummer). With a humbucker equipped guitar, my 15 watt rig does quite fine. But there are some situations where my main rig is called for.

The answer is to the original question cannot be answered by a number. Too many variables.

And that Princeton? That is the heaviest of my 4 rigs (about 35 pounds with the JBL) and at 59 years old, that is the heaviest amp I want to carry.

[KirkP]

It makes sense to spec a sound system in terms of watts where you're trying to fill a room of a certain size with program material without distortion. The situation it quite different for a guitar amplifier. So much depends on your preferred tone and desired level of distortion. As others have done already, I think it's best to compare amp models and speaker efficiencies rather than watts, especially if you're discussing tube amps. For tube amps, I'm usually fine with a Princeton or Deluxe (my amp is a VSA hybrid between the two). But I love the extra muscle of a Twin Reverb. It's not just the power - I think the 2x12 speaker configuration and solid state rectifiers are part of the magic.

[entresz]

I use my Quilter Aviator Twin Ten most of the time. I am yet to encounter a situation that was too loud for it.
When I need more THWACK I use my Peavey Session 400; 210 watts through a 15" speaker. It's not for volume so much as depth if that makes sense.

Sometimes I use the Peavey as an extension speaker for my Quilter. I have toyed with the idea of removing the 'amp' part of the Peavey and using it as an ext. cab, however I think the Peavey amp has its own 'mojo' so I will leave it as is for the time being.

[cosmic gumbo]

I find that a couple of JC-120s will handle most anything you might encounter, just to be sure.

[vinnyv1k]

I could never figure out why the wattage ratings of SS vs tube are so apples and oranges. A 160w SS amp is barely adequate and a 85w tube amp is usually more than you will ever need. It is almost like lying about engine horsepower.

[Little Jay]

For me, it depends mostly on how loud the drummer is. I got away with 22 watts this weekend with a loud drummer, but only because I could play with an overdriven sound all the time (free funk and fusion gig) and didn't need a clean tone. That would have been impossible with the 22 watts.

I take my Twin whenever I can, but I also have a 40w (2x6L6) 1x12" amp (modified Blues Deluxe) and a variety of smaller transistor amps to take by bike or public transport.

I am on the lookout for a high-power portable transistor amp and speaker setup for those occasions where you want a Twin but can't take one. I am currently looking at DV Mark, but based on my experience with tube amps I am afraid (well, pretty sure actually) the Micro 50 won't cover the situations where I would want my Twin, so I am looking at the 250 models.

In the course of the years my credo has become: better more watts than you need than less watts than you want!

[rio]

Everyone else answered it - it depends

That is what I love about my Bud. It is so freaking small that I can bring it anywhere but it is so, so loud that I don't need to worry about which amp for this gig in this place vs. which amp for that gig in that space. It really has simplified things for me and even playing in large venues, outdoors in bad conditions I have never maxed out the volume on that amp.

[sgcim]

My AI Corus has proven to be able to cut any situation where I need a clean sound. I even hooked up my RS-10 to it to get a good bass sound with my OC-3, and I sounded like a one man rhythm section at a duo jazz concert I played recently.

For pop-rock musical theater gigs I do, I use a PV Transtube amp that can get all those sounds at any desired volume.

[KirkP]

I could never figure out why the wattage ratings of SS vs tube are so apples and oranges. A 160w SS amp is barely adequate and a 85w tube amp is usually more than you will ever need. It is almost like lying about engine horsepower.

I think guitar amps are are generally spec'd for clean. Tube amps just get dirtier beyond this. SS amps generally clip pretty quickly beyond the rated watts. Just a guess.

[marcwhy]

This is always a tough question, and sure, "it depends" is always a good answer, too.

I'll let the engineers here discuss how "a watt is a watt," and there's no such thing as a "tube watt" vs. a "solid state watt." I know there are sound differences between a 20W tube amp and a 20W SS amp, but again, I'll let the engineers discuss the technical aspects.

That being said, I like tube amps, and I mostly play in a quartet (sax, bs, dr, gtr), in smaller venues (and occasional big stages). My 20W (6V6) tube amps hold up just fine with one cab, and if I need more sound, I'll add another cab -- very loud! I've had 33-40W (6L6) tube amps, and I never got the volume past "2," and they always seemed "too" loud! So, back to the 20W models. On a larger stage (or outside stage), there was always a PA/monitor system, so, again, no need for a LOUD amp.

That's my experience.

[MaxTwang]

Julian Lage and a tweed Champ. Frisell looks to have a small amp too.

I saw Julian Lage at the Musical Instrument Museum in Phoenix and while there was a mic, it sounded like the sound was coming off the stage and Julian's Champ did just fine with bass & drums. Had a similar experience with Frisell's Quartet at the Aladdin Theater in Portland in the 90's with all sound coming from the stage (Quartet had trumpet, trombone and violin). Frisell had a Boogie Subway Bus (20 watts) and you could hear the musicians talking to each other during the music, even from the balcony.

I love those quieter shows with incredible communication and expression.