Fender Deluxe Reverb or Princeton?

**Little Jay** · 06-17-2021, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by Woody Sound

It probably depends on the room/crowd size of the gigs you do.

…. and the volume of the drummer!

**citizenk74** · 06-23-2021, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

…. and the volume of the drummer!

This cannot be over-emphasized! The highest highs, the lowest lows and the strongest mids come from the drum set, mostly at 90 degrees from the other instruments. A bandshell will improve the mix, but they are vanishingly rare.

**nevershouldhavesoldit** · 06-23-2021, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by citizenk74

The highest highs, the lowest lows and the strongest mids come from the drum set.

I gotta be honest - I’ve gotten more of the lowest lows from drummers than the highest highs.

**Litterick** · 06-24-2021, 04:42 AM

Drummerless bands are few and far between, and virtually unknown in rock. This is a pity.

**jim777** · 06-25-2021, 01:05 PM

I'm thinking about getting one of the TM Twin Reverbs and moving my 70+ pound Mark IV combo. The idea of a 2x12 that's 85 pounds, sounds just like a Twin, and can be overdriven at 1 Watt if I want (and weighs 33 pounds....) is very appealing. I have a modeler already (a Fractal AX8 pedal) so I think I'd be set for life, honestly. The Mk IV is a great sounding amp, though it can be a PITA to setup given the options, but it's 70+ pounds easy and frankly too heavy to want to move.

**Gitfiddler** · 06-26-2021, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by jim777

I'm thinking about getting one of the TM Twin Reverbs and moving my 70+ pound Mark IV combo. The idea of a 2x12 that's 85 pounds, sounds just like a Twin, and can be overdriven at 1 Watt if I want (and weighs 33 pounds....) is very appealing. I have a modeler already (a Fractal AX8 pedal) so I think I'd be set for life, honestly. The Mk IV is a great sounding amp, though it can be a PITA to setup given the options, but it's 70+ pounds easy and frankly too heavy to want to move.

TM Twin Reverb makes a lot of sense, especially compared to a Mk IV. I sold mine a few months ago to a very happy fellow in the NJ. area.
I loved that amp, but couldn't manage its weight any longer.

**joebloggs13** · 07-02-2021, 02:42 AM

I just took delivery of a Louis Electric Columbia Reverb, which is Lou's take on a vintage blackface Princeton circuit. There are differences though. The biggest being that it has a Mids control, which is fantastic. It's also got a 12" speaker and is 18 watts with 6v6s. It can take 6L6s, which would give you 28 watts. I think mine is plenty loud for most situations with the 6v6 set. It is such a great sounding amp for jazz. A more powerful vintage sounding Princeton with a Mid control...win win.

**bluejaybill** · 07-02-2021, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by joebloggs13

I just took delivery of a Louis Electric Columbia Reverb, which is Lou's take on a vintage blackface Princeton circuit. There are differences though. The biggest being that it has a Mids control, which is fantastic. It's also got a 12" speaker and is 18 watts with 6v6s. It can take 6L6s, which would give you 28 watts. I think mine is plenty loud for most situations with the 6v6 set. It is such a great sounding amp for jazz. A more powerful vintage sounding Princeton with a Mid control...win win.

I have a similar, maybe the Bay Area version, a Fat Jimmy Gigmaster 20, similar wattage, with a negative feedback control. Princeton size with a 12" speaker, 6V6's. Very nice sounding amp, no middle control but the circuit is a bit tweaked with brown era attributes, so not purely a Princeton. A bit fuller sounding than the Fender BF circuit.

**j4zz** · 04-07-2022, 05:32 AM

I don't know what I have because many years ago, I grabbed a Fender schematic for a basic 6V6 PP amp, and after building the amp, I lost track of which schematic I had used. However, it doesn't have a mid tone control, and I used SS rectification. I have an original Rola 12PX 12" speaker from the 60s in there, and it just sounds perfect to me

These 15 or so watt amps are just right in the sweet spot.

**alltunes** · 04-07-2022, 07:24 AM

Recently picked up a Headstrong Santa Cruz 5 which will take a 6v6, EL84 or 6L6 without re-biasing and will change the wattage from 5-9 watts. Mid control too. I currently have a 6L6 in there and a 10” Weber 30 watt 10F150. The amp is housed in the same size cab as his Lil King.

The Weber has great warm lows. Amp is plenty loud to hang with a drummer especially with an EP booster. Awesome reverb too. Mid control super handy for adding some grit.

My Danocaster plugged straight in is tonal bliss.

**orri** · 04-08-2022, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by j4zz

I don't know what I have because many years ago, I grabbed a Fender schematic for a basic 6V6 PP amp, and after building the amp, I lost track of which schematic I had used. However, it doesn't have a mid tone control, and I used SS rectification. I have an original Rola 12PX 12" speaker from the 60s in there, and it just sounds perfect to me

These 15 or so watt amps are just right in the sweet spot.

The big difference between princeton reverb and deluxe reverb schematic is that deluxe reverb uses a long tail pair phase splitter, and has two channels (and one of them has a bright cap). Princeton reverb has a cathodyne phase splitter.

There are also some differences in component values and the Princeton reverb transformer didn't come with a separate tap for the bias supply (so the high voltage tap is used with a voltage divider instead). Deluxe reverb also has screen resistors and grid stoppers on the power tubes which the Princeton reverb doesn't have.

You can now easily find the schematics online so you should be able to open your amp and figure out what you've built. It's not straigth forward to map compenents on a board to a schematic (but neither is it crazy hard with some patience) but it is fairly easy to see the difference between an LTP and cathodyne phase splitter (check what's connected to the phase splitter tube) and screen resistors and grid stoppers are commonly soldered to the tube sockets, so they are too easy to identify.

**j4zz** · 04-08-2022, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by orri

The big difference between princeton reverb and deluxe reverb schematic is that deluxe reverb uses a long tail pair phase splitter, and has two channels (and one of them has a bright cap). Princeton reverb has a cathodyne phase splitter.

There are also some differences in component values and the Princeton reverb transformer didn't come with a separate tap for the bias supply (so the high voltage tap is used with a voltage divider instead). Deluxe reverb also has screen resistors and grid stoppers on the power tubes which the Princeton reverb doesn't have.

You can now easily find the schematics online so you should be able to open your amp and figure out what you've built. It's not straigth forward to map compenents on a board to a schematic (but neither is it crazy hard with some patience) but it is fairly easy to see the difference between an LTP and cathodyne phase splitter (check what's connected to the phase splitter tube) and screen resistors and grid stoppers are commonly soldered to the tube sockets, so they are too easy to identify.

Thanks for that. I didn't mention I left off the reverb bit anyway. OK, easy to see what type of phase splitter I used next time it is open. That seems to me to be the biggest likely suspect for differences in sound/performance. I have to say, I think either would sound great.

**guavajelly** · 04-02-2023, 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

…. and the volume of the drummer!

And the volume of anybody in the band. Last time I used a princeton at a gig the hammond and leslie just blew it out of the mix. Wouldn't do it again ...

**wintermoon** · 04-24-2023, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by guavajelly

And the volume of anybody in the band. Last time I used a princeton at a gig the hammond and leslie just blew it out of the mix. Wouldn't do it again ...

Yep, I brought an unmiked DR to my first B3 gig, the organ and drums crushed it, never again.
Bought a blackface Twin Reverb a week later.

**DougB** · 04-24-2023, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Rufes

Another option that calls my attention a lot (even more) is an old Gibson EH150

Did you know that Vintage-47 amps makes a 'duplicate' (sound wise anyway) of the EH150 called the VA-185G:

VA-185G

cost is $1145 + $50 USD shipping

Jonathan Stout who plays nothing but 30's-50's music uses one, and he knows what he's doing.

**jim777** · 02-22-2024, 12:02 AM

Old thread, but a brand new TM Twin is like $1100 and kicks as all kinds of backside. 33 pounds in weight! I don't have that 'can tell a PAF from a T-Top ear' thankfully, but you can't go wrong with the very light, portable, and LOUD TM Twin. Incredible amp if you are over 60, like me, and it will hang with any band, like a regular Twin

If you want something that weighs 10 pounds, there are other threads galore on those.

**Hep To The Jive** · 06-24-2024, 03:20 AM

For me the Deluxe reverb is the best amp ever. Cuts any gig volume wise, and the best tone, not super clean but with that slight break up. Princeton is great amp too, but not as loud so not as versatile for gigging.

One amp I can't stand is Fender Twin, unfortunately some venues here think it's a good idea for a house amp. You can't turn it pass 2 before everyone complains it's too loud, and the sound is crap. I'm dreading any gig I have to use it. Sometimes going direct can get a better tone.

**Marklin678** · 06-24-2024, 05:30 AM

I have both a SF Princeton Reverb and a SF Deluxe Reverb, but both have been modded a bit.

The Princeton is perfect for a grab and go to jam amp and it can 'sing' without using any pedals at jam level. The Deluxe stays cleaner longer, and it plays great with pedals.It's a great club amp. Together it's the best of both worlds.