Is It Just Me Or Do Samick Jazz Guitars Sound Like Dead Wood?

**Jp267** · 01-31-2018, 08:37 AM

I've tried two Samick Jazz boxes in the last two days. One a Greg Bennett Lasalle and an HJ650 (which I reluctantly bought).

They look really nice, but to me, they just sound dead. Nothing stands out. I know they're budget guitars, but I wish, they were more articulate.

So I just wanted wanted to see if anyone else has noticed this or is just me (probably).

Great to be here can't wait to contribute! Attached is the HJ650 I just picked up. Beautiful guitar..just sounds like somethings missing to me tone wise. Think I'm returning it.

JP

**wildschwein** · 01-31-2018, 08:58 AM

Maybe some new pickups will bring them to life.

**Jp267** · 01-31-2018, 09:01 AM

Yeah they look pretty crummy. They seem to be Samick "designed". It was so cheap I'll hang on to it for a project guitar.

**Doctor Jeff** · 01-31-2018, 09:09 AM

Not sure what the size is, but it looks just like an Epiphone Joe Pass to me. I had a Samick-made JP a few years ago--very decent guitar, very well-made.

I wouldn't say it lacked warmth, though I did replace the pickups with an improvement in the tone.

Here's the JP on the right:

Is It Just Me Or Do Samick Jazz Guitars Sound Like Dead Wood?-img_3980-jpg

Is It Just Me Or Do Samick Jazz Guitars Sound Like Dead Wood?-img_3980-jpg

There's a pretty thick poly coat on these guitars, which may or may not affect acoustic tone. Plugged in it wasn't a big deal.

I for one think it looks great and would recommend the usual--changing strings, pickup and pole piece height, etc.--before giving up on it.

**Jp267** · 01-31-2018, 09:12 AM

You're right. It needs pickups and a good setup. Hopefully, it will sound better after. Definitely going to keep it. It was only $300 so why not. Thanks for your thoughts!

**va3ux** · 01-31-2018, 09:13 AM

I have a HJ-650 and I personally think it sounds pretty good. That's how my ears and brain hear it but what you hear could be quite different and that's all that matters. I do recall discovering that mine was miswired when I first got it. I corrected that (which made a big difference) and then eventually put a '57 classic in it. Mine also has a tunomatic style bridge and that changes the tone somewhat compared to the wood bridge you have. With flatwounds it definitely sounds thuddy.

**va3ux** · 01-31-2018, 09:16 AM

Jeff - the HJ-650 has a differernt shape in the cutaway area than the JP. I think the JP is also 16" on the lower bout and the HJ-650 is 17". And it's quite deep too.

**Jp267** · 01-31-2018, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by va3ux

I have a HJ-650 and I personally think it sounds pretty good. That's how my ears and brain hear it but what you hear could be quite different and that's all that matters. I do recall discovering that mine was miswired when I first got it. I corrected that (which made a big difference) and then eventually put a '57 classic in it. Mine also has a tunomatic style bridge and that changes the tone somewhat compared to the wood bridge you have. With flatwounds it definitely sounds thuddy.

Thanks for the suggestion. I have a Duncan 59 neck and Duncan jazz neck sitting around. Maybe I'll give one a try. Thanks kindly!

**Jp267** · 01-31-2018, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by va3ux

Jeff - the HJ-650 has a differernt shape in the cutaway area than the JP. I think the JP is also 16" on the lower bout and the HJ-650 is 17". And it's quite deep too.

It's probably the deepest guitar I've ever played. It's thick. Just put a ruler on it 4in deep.

**Northenlights** · 01-31-2018, 09:27 AM

Dead compared to what? Keep in mind that they are laminates with a cut up top. They will never sound as good acoustically as a solid wood guitar with just a floater, but that goes for a Gibson 175 as well.

That said, I never liked the sound of my Lasalle. It sounded dull and lifeless. After I passed that on, I have decided to mostly use semi-hollows when playing amplified, and solid tops when playing unplugged. The middle ground of laminate tops with a pickup route seems like a bad compromise that's just the worst of both worlds, at least to me.

**Jp267** · 01-31-2018, 09:28 AM

Top to bottom on the non cut side is 20in. On the cut side 17in.

**Jp267** · 01-31-2018, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Northenlights

Dead compared to what? Keep in mind that they are laminates with a cut up top. They will never sound as good acoustically as a solid wood guitar with just a floater, but that goes for a Gibson 175 as well.

That said, I never liked the sound of my Lasalle. It sounded dull and lifeless. After I passed that on, I have decided to mostly use semi-hollows when playing amplified, and solid tops when playing unplugged. The middle ground of laminate tops with a pickup route seems like a bad compromise that's just the worst of both worlds, at least to me.

Exactly how I would describe the Lasalle. Thanks for putting the words in my mouth. I guess I just need to experiment with it for a bit and see how it goes. Probably was jumping to conclusions based on trying it for 15 minutes. Though the Lasalle I played for an hour and that was enough.

**icr** · 01-31-2018, 10:51 AM

If this is inside, it may require some work to sound as good as it can. My Samick-made Sebring required a little work. I'm very happy with its sound and playability compared to my Gibsons now that I added to the Sebring things such as 500k USA made pots, PAF-spec humbuckers and appropriate shielded wiring.

**Jp267** · 01-31-2018, 10:54 AM

Thanks! I've yet to open it. Hopefully today. Yours looks amazing polished and dressed up.

I'm sticking with it. Will keep me out of trouble working on it and doing some experiments with pickups etc.

TH · 01-31-2018, 11:09 AM

There was a period of time when some of the most popular of the Ibanez mid-line guitars were made by Samick. It'd be hard to say which ones though because they'd change factories without changing specs or even model names. Personally, I thought the Samick built guitars sounded good when set up well, with the right strings and with appropriate mods to put back the corners they cut. Either way, finding a good pickup match can really change a guitar from "enh" to "Wow!". Just gotta try it out. The same pickup on one type of guitar can also bring out qualities of the PU and the guitar that it wouldn't in a different type of guitar.
Good luck.
David

**va3ux** · 01-31-2018, 11:09 AM

That Sebring is a Samick HJ-650. Washburn had a similar model that I believe was also a HJ-650 with a Washburn headstock attached to the neck.

Here is Dick (Dutch Bopper) playing his HJ-650 from many years ago.

**icr** · 01-31-2018, 11:25 AM

I found this Samick graphic a while back. Looks to be from year 2000. I think the names are correct, but the "Style" designations are not all correct.

Interesting thing about my Sebring. I had my eye on a Samick HJ650N but wanted to procure a L5 tailpiece somewhere or somehow. So I bought an inexpensive ($290) guitar from GC via mail just to get the L5 tailpiece. So the guitar shows up and as I'm preparing to remove the tailpiece I realize the Sebring is a JH650N with L5 tailpiece. The "Gibson" shaped headstock with a blank area for a flower pot inlay was an added plus.

**Robertkoa** · 01-31-2018, 11:25 AM

I like Dutch Boppers tone ( and soulful Playing ) a lot .
It's Phat , warm and articulate BUT does not sound too rolled off to the point where it's dull .

The really rolled down tone control actually bothers me on some tracks more on the Chords...where the notes mush together too much.

Cool playing distracts me from his Tone in a good way but I like the Tone.

**va3ux** · 01-31-2018, 11:58 AM

You'd have to ask Dick but I believe that was an all-stock guitar. Cheap factory pickups and all.

**Gustavo Eiriz** · 01-31-2018, 12:06 PM

This is a wonderful laminate guitar. I think in my more or less similar Washburn J6 montgomery the top is pressed spruce.
If you set it up well and put good pickups you will have a nice tone.... But it will never sound like a L-5.. The diffrence between laminated vs carved solid wood is so important. Laminated sounds right, but a little bit dull and life less compared to the real thing even in the amplified tone.

**John A.** · 01-31-2018, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by va3ux

Jeff - the HJ-650 has a differernt shape in the cutaway area than the JP. I think the JP is also 16" on the lower bout and the HJ-650 is 17". And it's quite deep too.

I had a Samick HF 650 for many years, which is almost the same thing as the Epi JP -- 16", same cutaway shape. To my my eye it looks like it might have a slightly narrower waist, but I'm not sure about that. Otherwise, based on the JP examples I've tried, they sound and play like the same guitar. Can't speak to the HJ 650, as I've never tried one. But given how many great sounding guitars are actually Samicks in all but name on the headstock, I don't think the problem is the company overall. The OP's could be a lemon, or it could be great, but not his taste, or it could be that that some parts swaps and/or adjustments would liven it up for him. Speaking of which, OP, if you haven't done this already, try playing around with the pick-up height. That can make a remarkable amount of difference.

John

**Jp267** · 01-31-2018, 12:44 PM

Wow thanks for all the suggestions and help everyone! I haven't played in 10 years and I'm shaking off the rust. So much has changed with amps, strings etc. It's pretty much like starting over. I own a business and for 10 years traveled over 300k miles a year. So playing wasn't in the cards. And I didn't play a ton of jazz. Now that's mostly what I want to play.

I'm going to give it a fair shake. Stick at least one of the Duncan's in. Haven't wired up a hollow body in a long time. I used to own an ES-175T, but someone gave me a good offer and I sold it. Wish I didn't miss that guitar.

Anyway, going to set it up, change pickups, rewire it etc. Once all that's done then we'll see how it sounds.

Love this forum! Thank you all for the helpful info, suggestions and advice. You don't know how much it's appreciated!!

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**icr** · 01-31-2018, 01:28 PM

This is how I wired mine.
I replaced my switch with a USA Switchcraft. Not for any 'sonic' reason, but just 'because I can.'

**citizenk74** · 01-31-2018, 02:56 PM

1)

2) You might want to experiment with string gauges and pickup/polepiece heights before taking the plunge on new components; although upgrading the electronics is undoubtedly a good idea, you don't want to skip the step where you maximize the possibilities of what you have already. Amplifying guitars is a sweet-spot game, and with archtops that factor is trebled, at least. By all means, put in better hardware and wiring (icr's approach is exemplary) but don't forget the pegwinder/screwdriver/infinite patience phase.
3) Congratulations, and enjoy the adventure in good health!

**rio** · 01-31-2018, 05:26 PM

I had a Samick a long long time ago. It was my first archtop actually, right after I started playing which was probably around 1996. Being an idiot kid it fed back too much for me playing at way too loud volumes so I sold it but I remember it sounding great to my non-experienced ears.

Regarding the sound you are hearing, like others have said for a thick poly coated laminate you can expect that it won’t be too lively but acoustically are there any other archtops you could compare it to? If it sounds better acoustically than plugged in then you can blame the electronics.

On that graphic the “L5 style 7 string” thin body looks very interesting. Does anyone know anything about that model? The bridge makes me wonder if it is a semi or if it has reinforcement under the bridge. I’d love to try one some time but I doubt I’d ever see one locally.

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