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(specifically Martin Retro and D'Addario XL120 "Nickel Wound"). Plugged in (P90), I can't tell which is which, and I don perceive any difference in string-to-string loudness or any need to adjust pole-piece height.
My experience: Martin monel vs TI swing, P90 pickup: dramatic imbalance with the monel. I like the monels on my acoustic a lot, though.
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03-23-2018 04:52 PM
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I have kept detailed records about strings on my instruments. I tried Rotosound FW 12s a couple of times and found them a little too bright. They also were not quite as slick feeling as TIs and Pyramids.
Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
I tried them again about a year ago and found that I do like them. I roll off the treble slightly. Their feel is fine.
The same thing happened with GHS FWs. I once thought they were much inferior to D'Add Chromes and other more expensive strings. Now I think they sound just fine.
Despite my wondering why I keep a string journal that's so unreliable, I continue to do so.
Rotosounds amplify well and are a bargain.
Next year I may a contradictory opinion. It keeps me interested though.
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With my FHC, the string imbalance of the Martin Tony Rice was severe (apparently also dependent on the amp). Slanting the pickup (treble side closer to strings) has improved the situation significantly, though. Originally Posted by nopedals
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- Monel = several different alloys consisting of 60-something % Nickel + 30-something % copper + other metals (iron, molybdenum, etc) used to vary the strength, hardness, etc. The specific alloys are called Monel 400, Monel 405, etc., depending on the specific combinations and proportions of the different metals and the way the wires are formed. Originally Posted by sgosnell
- I've read several articles that describe D'Addario Pure Nickel strings as being wound with a nickel alloy, but I've not seen any that specify which one. However, reading between the lines, I'm pretty sure it's a Monel. So I suspect that you can't hear a difference between those and Martin Monels because they're the same metal.
- I've ready in multiple places that Martin makes strings; but so far as I can tell none of the string-makers makes the wire itself. String-making = fabricates a cut and finished string from raw wire sourced from a wire manufacturer.
John
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Yes, I suspect the 'pure nickel' strings are some variety of monel, but I have no idea exactly which one. There are many, and so far searches for what D'Addario or other makers of 'pure nickel' use has been fruitless.
I doubt any string manufacturer makes the actual wire. That requires a serious investment in equipment that isn't economical. The machinery required just to make strings from wire is expensive and complicated enough. My feeling is that there aren't very many companies willing to invest the time, money, and personnel required for making strings, and use one of the actual string manufacturers to provide strings to spec, including packaging. There are a few companies which do this exclusively, and don't even bother to sell their own brands. I would be surprised if any instrument manufacturing companies actually made their own strings, but I've been surprised before. I have no actual knowledge of the matter.
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I notice a clear difference in tone from Martin Retro Monel and D'Addario Pure Nickel.
They are NOT the same. No question.
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+ 1 Originally Posted by campusfive
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I don't really have enough experience with monel to say anything with certainty. One set on one rather new guitar doesn't provide enough data points. And I don't even know the exact alloys for either monel or pure nickel, with dozens, at least, being available. I read your blog, Jonathon, but I'm not sure I got everything. Which do you prefer for acoustic, or does it depend on the guitar? I have a couple of archtops that I play acoustically, and they sound very different because of different construction and age. I've been debating on what strings to use, and I could just buy some and change them out, but I hate to spend money unnecessarily. It's not much, but I grew up poor, calculating the rare candy purchase based on how much I got for the nickel as much as as the taste, and it's hard to break lifelong habits.
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Here: Monel - Wikipedia
Monel is a trademark for a series of metal compounds originally created by Robert Crooks Stanley in 1901. Patented in 1906 and named after INCO company president Alfred Monell.
Typical composition for Monel:
nickel: 63% min
copper: 28 - 34%
iron: - 2.5% max
manganese: 2% max
silicon: .5% maxLast edited by Hammertone; 03-24-2018 at 03:21 PM.
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Yeah, I've seen that, but there is a large variance in the different alloys, and several different standard monel compositions. Minimum and maximum percentages don't tell you anything with much accuracy. I don't know what the Martin Retro alloy is exactly, nor do I know what alloy is in the pure nickel strings. I can't find out, but it's a purely academic exercise anyway, and I'm mostly curious about the 'pure nickel' alloy.
Edit: a visit to the Martin website shows that they use a proprietary formulation of monel. They don't give the specs other than that. And it seems that Martin does make their own strings, have been since ~1970.Last edited by sgosnell; 03-24-2018 at 08:11 PM.
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I really like Monels. I use them on my Loar 600 with a Djangobucker pickup so not sure if that counts, but I’ve found that although I like them about as much as the TI Bebops for sound (I think they are slightly louder?) they can put up with a lot more punishment, which is what I need for rhythm guitar.
I use .12s Martin Retro with a .15 top string. The feel of the strings is a fair bit tighter than the bebops. The sound is about as loud as PB strings after they’ve settled. Monels are super consistent.
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I notice some imbalance even with the Djangobucker which is compensated for acoustic strings btw
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I've used the Rotos on my Hagstrom for years -- great strings and have amazing longevity. I like the 12-52 gauge.
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Just to experiment, for the last few months tried a monel Rotosound 012 flatwound set on my BJB L5 Studio Custom. I still have them on, they sound loud and OK for electric playing and were not expensive. As part of the experiment replaced the low E and A strings with old TI's and the change worked for my ears. In January went to the city and brought a set of GHS stainless precision flatwounds, but finally didn't put them on. Experiment aborted. Will try them on a HB equipped guitar.
Apart from the BJB this guitar has a piezo transducer installed at the bridge from the factory. For the last 10 years it has been stringed with D'Addario (013) and then Martin (012) phosphor bronze strings, and played mostly non amplified or through the piezo. For example, 012 Martins SP strings were on it when this pic was taken:
These days I only have this guitar with me in the farm I spend most of my time, and while I am using more the BJB for electric playing, still want the piezo and the unplugged acoustic sounds to be available.
So it came as extemely useful the info from Campusfive blog and his videos. Made me realize the 012 monel Martin Retros could serve as a compromise for getting the most utility from each of the three purposes (magnetic/piezo/acoustic), they are available here, come from a trusted brand and not expensive, so looking forward to try them:
Retro Strings
| C.F. Martin & Co.
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Re: the issue of string balance, my update is that I've experienced first hand what a vast difference the amp can made. Going from midsize blackface to small tweed basically solved the balance issue (talking monel strings and a DeArmond Guitar Mike, so no adjustable poles). The post telling the story in a bit more detail is here: DeArmond FHC: string balance and amp choice
Last edited by radiofm74; 03-30-2018 at 09:03 AM.
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In the past I put some Martin monels in my savoy
They soundt great, very different to the half rounds that I currently use in my jazzline
Agustin Layus on Instagram: “Cuerdas de acustica en una archtop? Si senor! pobrando las Martin monel (nickel /cobre alloy) sin enchufar Tema original "sacalito"…”Last edited by Arnesto; 03-30-2018 at 04:52 PM.
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I am really uninformed about strings in general, but are the D'Addario Nickel-Bronze Acoustics similar in function, if not in composition?
D'Addario Strings : Acoustic Strings : Nickel Bronze Wound
Review: D'Addario Nickel Bronze Acoustic Strings - GuitarPlayer.com
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The D'Addario Nickel Bronze are nickel-plated bronze. In my limited experience (one set of each) they sound closer to bronze than monel strings, but the nickel plating gives more balance with a magnetic pickup. Not like nickel, but more than pure bronze. I sort of like them, but they're too expensive for my use. I prefer the pure nickel strings.
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I did a comparison of the Monel to the Nickel Bronze. Pretty different strings. The D'Addario Nickel Bronze sound like phosphor bronze with a bit more bite. The monels have a bit less bass.
Also, I tried out Rotosound Flatwound Monels out of curiosity today. They sound less plunky than TI flatwounds. The intonation was intolerable. I had to take them off after spending 30 minutes adjusting my bridge. I put another set of strings on and the guitar's intonation came straight back.Maybe they just needed more time to stretch out? Still, I've never seen a string intonate so poorly.
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Weird -- I have run a few sets of the Rotos on different guitars and never had a problem other than the initial set-up which I do after every string change on any guitar with any string set. Action and fret size may play a role I guess. I've had a set on a box for 2 and a bit years and they still sound fine. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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I have a bit to add to this thread, now. I just bought an FHC and put it on my L7, which has Martin Monels on it.
The FHC has some cutouts on it which I think have something to do with balancing the output. Initially, the unwound E was too loud.
I put a rubber washer on the screw that attaches the pickguard to the neck, and twisted the screw rod on the other pickguard mount. This moved the pickguard a fraction of an inch, so I was able to reposition the pickup very slightly. This solved the string imbalance issue.
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Do you have a photo? I'm having trouble visualizing what you did. Originally Posted by nopedals
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> Do you have a photo? I'm having trouble visualizing what you did.
You can see the washer between the neck and the top of the pickguard. The screw goes through a plastic block glued to the bottom of the pickguard. The screw rod goes through the other plastic block.
Here are the two blocks
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Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
well,new strings need time to acclimate to a guitar..30 minutes aint it..be like walkin on wet paint and saying the paint is sticky...
when changing strings, tune them to pitch....gingerly, without going sharp on 'em...then bang around on em' (slang for play roughly) a few minutes..retune, and let it sit overnight
then you can assess what needs to be done
including removing them!! haha..
cheers
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This is a great way to adjust the spacing for a Dearmond or neck-mounted floater without having to cut a pickguard. Originally Posted by nopedals
As far as Rotosound Monel flatwound "Top Tape" strings go, I have a few sets in the string humidor and a couple of guitars strung up with them, and have never had a problem with them.
[ed: At some point after I acquired a box of Rotosound Top Tape strings, Rotosound changed the wrap composition from Monel to ss. Several people, myself included, corresponded with Rotosound about this, they confirmed that the wrap on the Top Tape guitar strings is ss. So, Rotosound Top Tapes are NOT Monel-wrapped. They are steel wrapped. As of 12/23, they have not changed the packaging graphics or the description on their website. Pretty lame stuff.]Last edited by Hammertone; 12-10-2023 at 02:06 AM.
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Raney and Abersold, great interview.
Yesterday, 11:21 PM in Improvisation