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I was looking at a Les Paul Supreme for sale on my local Craigslist. The guitar was quite striking, mint and a doable price. My online research indicated that there had been a couple of runs of fake Les Paul Supremes (made in China) and that Gibson could be called for info on the fakes.
Gibson's customer service was first rate. I was through their phone tree in moments talking to a live, American, Gibson representative. He confirmed that the guitar I was looking at was the real thing. He also told me that the guitar had a richlite board (the seller told me it was Ebony). That was a deal killer for me. I believe that up the road, richlite board Gibsons will have as much of a stigma as the volute Gibsons of the 70's (with a diminution of value as well). While I am sure that richlite plays well, sounds great and is "politically correct " (something that I am most certainly not!), I do not want any richlite in my guitar collection. YMMV.
The Gibson rep gave me his personal email and told me that he would gladly research any Gibson guitars for me prior to my purchasing them.
Getting good service from a big company is rare these days. Today, I was well pleased and wanted to share the story. All who are purchasing a used Gibson are well advised to call their customer service. Phone number is:1 (800) 444-2766
PS, I know there are some horror stories about Gibson customer service out there. If possible, can we keep this thread positive?
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03-26-2018 01:13 PM
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This is great news SS.
Perhaps this is the beginning of some great things to come from Gibson.
In my own opinion, If there is a list of the 10 most important things a company should do to survive, the top 8 should be taking care of the customer.
To me, your post is a definite step in the right direction.
Thanks, Joe D.
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can't remember the company, but there was a full page ad in this months Vintage Guitar magazine stating that they're planting ebony trees on a large scale, maybe we'll see a time when the forests are replenished.
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I sincerely wish the company that is planting the ebony trees well. Historically, ebony, mahogany, and rosewood forestry has been abysmally unsuccessful. The trees grow for awhile then die.
I truly hope that this is not the case with the current venture. We _need_ a new source of these beautiful hardwoods.
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I know this thread isn't about richlite pro or con, but I just want to add something. I think if you didn't know your guitar had richlite and you assumed it ebony, you wouldn't 2nd guess it. But if you knew it might be richlite, you could probably see the difference. Does that make sense? Myself, I think in the long run it will prove to be a better material as far as stability with expansion/contraction issues, which ebony is notorious for. Don't know about refret jobs. JMO.
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Good to hear about your positive Gibson customer service experience.
I've read that most companies that source Ebony (guitar and furniture makers) typically look for the blackest wood they can find, often leaving behind to rot much of the Ebony that has brown streaks. The hardness is identical. Only the appearance differs. What a waste!!
Taylor Guitars is one builder that looks for all grades of Ebony...and more importantly, plants Ebony trees to replenish the forest.
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I only have one experience with Gibson customer support, and it was also a good one. I had just bought my 1947 L-5N. The serial number on the label is really faint, with at least a couple of the digits being a toss-up between one or two different numbers ("could be this, could be that...").
Not wanting to sound like a lazy person who didn't know how to do a basic serial number search on the Web, I explained that I had already done what I could to date the guitar. I let him know that I was aware of the famous and fabled Shipping Ledgers. I implored him to look there for me, not thinking he would be able to actually do that.
But he did! It took a couple of exchanges, but eventually he found my guitar and we confirmed the serial number. It was originally shipped to Sweden, to a shop owned by the then-future founder of the Hagstrom guitar company. And what was extra cool - he then mailed me a photocopy of the ledger page, which lives in the case and will go to the next caretaker at some point.Last edited by rpguitar; 03-26-2018 at 02:47 PM.
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RP, does it have the small made in usa stamp on back of headstock?
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It sure does - "Made in the USA" to be precise - and that helped nail it down.
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I agree. Ebony is not an ideal material. It swells and shrinks with seasonal humidity variations at a rate different from the other woods used in a guitar neck. As a result one can end up with protruding fret ends which have to be filed down. Or - if binding nibs are used - one can end with cracked nibs/binding. For all I know many Gibsons still come with nibs (?) though the ones from the recent clearout sale didn't seem to have them.
Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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yeah, a friend had a '28 L-5 w/the stamp, it was originally sent to England. Originally Posted by rpguitar
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It is always good to hear positive customer service stories, and Thank you, Ss, for posting the CS#.
I personally have no issues with Richlite or volutes.
I am also cool with streaked ebony. Natural variations in color, grain orientation, mineral streaks and so forth (provided always that they are sound and of a density not less than the surrounding wood) are welcome in any instrument I own. To have wood that is structurally sound left to rot for merely aesthetic reasons is a huge waste. I hope efforts to replenish the forests are successful.
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Man, this statement is a faux equivalence to a hate crime... Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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While I realize the OP certainly has a right to own or not own a guitar with a Richlite board, the complaints about Richlite are really getting old. I have found zero difference between the playing performance of Richlite versus ebony. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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I have to admit that i too, never ever would buy a guitar with a richlite board. Not because i doubt the functional efficiency, but because it's not organic material and i prefer it to be organic. The volute is something different. My optimism tells me that sooner or later guitars with a volute will not be considered to be inferior anymore. I bet that the general negative opinion against volutes is based mainly on imagination and i'd like to ask anybody who considers guitars with volutes to be inferior to play a few of them before making up their minds. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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SS~LP Supremes are cool guitars, especially the early design with two set-in pickups. The more recent versions have one floater and F-hole ala LP Florentine.
Both versions are cool, but I have one bought new in 2003, loaded with aftermarket Seth Lovers, making it a 'cold dead hands' guitar for me.
Which one are you considering?
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Gibson customer service doesn’t always have accurate information to work with. If you call them with the serial number of this guitar, they will tell you that it has a richlite board. I’m surprised this piece of ebony was used though. It actually has a worm hole in it.
Also, FWIW, their records do not show this Nashville 335 as a ‘59 reissue, despite every last spec being perfect, even more correct than some listed with them as ‘59 reissues.
I will say that I’ve never had a bad experience when I’ve called. They just don’t necessarily have accurate information about individual guitars.
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i fear that the day will come when worms will have to work their way through richlite because no real wood is left.
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Do people complain about the volutes that are on tons of Ibanez guitars? I’m sure someone must, but I haven’t personally heard so. Originally Posted by JazzNote
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A well-done volute is a thing of beauty... Originally Posted by JazzNote
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I was considering a 2012, with the 2 built in PUPS and no F -holes. Looks like very a cool Lester (carved top AND back). But I will only be interested in pre 2011 examples at this point. And they will have to be pretty close to 8 pounds (the one I am passing on is 8 pounds 2 ounces). Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
SS~LP Supremes are cool guitars, especially the early design with two set-in pickups. The more recent versions have one floater and F-hole ala LP Florentine.
Both versions are cool, but I have one bought new in 2003, loaded with aftermarket Seth Lovers, making it a 'cold dead hands' guitar for me.
Which one are you considering?
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Richlite in fact contains "organic material" to the extent that it is made from paper. Paper, of course, is made from trees. Originally Posted by JazzNote
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Paper composite panels - Wikipedia
Sustainability - Richlite
Seems that Richlite is a sustainable, eco-friendly material.
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blkjazz, thanks for clearing this up, but the content of 35% phenolic resin is enough to "scare" me away ;-). Originally Posted by blkjazz
Richlite in fact contains "organic material" to the extent that it is made from paper. Paper, of course, is made from trees.
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My only richlite experience is on a fretless electric hollowbody bass and it is definitely distinguishable from ebony. The feel of how the strings go against the fingerboard is the giveaway and I can’t describe it with words but I could certainly tell the difference if I were blindfolded. If there were frets between the strings and the richlite I’m not sure that I could tell the difference or that it would impact he sound much. I would be very curious to try a guitar like an L5, one with ebony and one with richlite, and try to discern any difference. I can guarantee though that if I am feeling a difference on an electric hollow body fretless that I would certainly never want it on something like an upright bass, where I think it would not only feel different but impact the sound as well.
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