Delay settings for a clean jazz guitar sound

[LukeReinhart]

Can anybody make any recommendations about delay settings for a clean jazz guitar sound?

I normally just plug into a clean amp with a bit of reverb, using the neck pickup on an archtop guitar. I see a lot of players gigging who seem to use echo / delay to fatten up the sound a bit, or add a bit of ambience. Nothing drastic, no obvious repeats.

Can anybody suggest what kind of settings would work for this, in a reasonably subtle way, and if it is then best to turn the amp reverb off or down?

Thanks - and BTW, I have few old analogue 'bucket brigade' delay pedals, plus a Strymon Timeline. Before I sell these off, I'd like to see if any of them truly add anything in a jazz context.

[mad dog]

I use delay and reverb all the time. For anything. But the delay is quite subtle. Repeats very low or lowest (one), with delay signal mixed down, barely audible. So that you really don't hear the repeat, more a spacier, roomier reverb. Very few delay pedals can be set that way. I try many. Few will do it. The ones I'm using now are the Skreddy Echo and the TC Electronics Alter Ego X2 set to either space echo or echoplex.

[jorgemg1984]

I rarely play without delay, it gives depth to the sound - and that means using just a little reverb. As for settings - time around 500ms / 600ms, feedback around 50% and a low mix, so it doens't get in the way. Mix will be higher at gigs then at home, of course.

[pauln]

I only use the old spring reverb in my tube amps, but I'll tell you how I use it.

I set it very low for general jazz playing; I don't want chord changes to wash across each other or sound indistinct, so the actual reverb level is just barely noticeable, almost subliminal, and only adds a natural ambient feel to the sound - so that it does not sound absolutely dead dry in a dead dry space. The intensity of spring reverb follows signal level; when soloing I just firm my grip on the pick, the signal and sound levels go up, and the reverb depth goes a little deeper which works just right for soloing.

The critical thing using this approach is I set the reverb truly lower than I think I will want in order to preserve an apparent change range from virtually no effect to a discernible change, controlled by picking firmness, yet subtle enough this is not recognizable as an "effect". This is kind of inversely analogous to the idea of dynamic range - where if you compress it all out you don't have any left. With reverb, if it's there too much, it's still there when you don't want so much. For the few songs where a deeper reverb is part of the character of the song, like "Sleep Walk", I just turn it up a little more at the amp.

Just to be clear, the usual level I'm using would not distinguish whether it was reverb or delay - no springy-sprongy, washy-whoosy sound at all, and with delay there would be no apparent echos or tails... just a slight ambiance that sounds like a nice room; so I would never use both.

[TedBPhx]

I use the built in dly+rvb pedal on the Boss Katana. With both delay and reverb set to almost minimal I like the way it fattens without muddying.

[blille]

I rarely play without delay, it gives depth to the sound - and that means using just a little reverb. As for settings - time around 500ms / 600ms, feedback around 50% and a low mix, so it doens't get in the way. Mix will be higher at gigs then at home, of course.

This is great advice.

For feedback I count three audible repeats, which tends to be 50%ish depending on units.

I prefer analog. I use a deluxe memory man but you could get away with something even darker like a Memory Boy/Toy or Carbon Copy.

[whiskey02]

I'll be true to myself and vote to ditch the delay entirely and just use a bit of reverb. Sounds much more natural, it replicates something natural. A delay pedal sounds like a pedal, synthetic, electronica. Frankly, the cleaner the guitar sound, the worse and more obvious the delay effect sounds imho.

[Cunamara]

I rarely play without delay, it gives depth to the sound - and that means using just a little reverb. As for settings - time around 500ms / 600ms, feedback around 50% and a low mix, so it doens't get in the way. Mix will be higher at gigs then at home, of course.

Wow, that's a lot of delay IMHO- 500 ms is 1/2 second. An 1/8 note at a balled tempo, a whole note at a medium swing. Are you using that instead of reverb?

[blille]

I'll be true to myself and vote to ditch the delay entirely and just use a bit of reverb. Sounds much more natural, it replicates something natural. A delay pedal sounds like a pedal, synthetic, electronica. Frankly, the cleaner the guitar sound, the worse and more obvious the delay effect sounds imho.

Wow, that's a lot of delay IMHO- 500 ms is 1/2 second. An 1/8 note at a balled tempo, a whole note at a medium swing. Are you using that instead of reverb?

The advantage delay has over most Reverb IMHO is the pre-delay that lets the attack cut through.

To do pseudo reverb short delay times with a lot of feedback are better.

[pauln]

If you play through an old Fender tube amp that has the two channels, each with two inputs, and the old spring reverb, there are some things you can do to get some additional control over the reverb.

One thing you can try is to plug into the Normal (no reverb) channel, but run a patch cord from the second input of the Normal channel over to an input of the Vibrato channel (with reverb)... this is called "jumpering" - just put a short cable with one end into the unused Normal input and the other end into a Vibrato channel input. This is the same as splitting your guitar signal with a "y" adapter and plugging the two split signals into the two channels.

Then set the Normal channel up to playing level - this becomes the main voice of the amp. Then come up with a lower volume and reverb on the Vibrato channel. If you play around with this you will find a setting where the louder Normal channel masks the reverb when a note is sounding... but the space between slow notes or after playing a phrase of notes has reverb. This is really a "poor man's ducking reverb", a studio method that only lets reverb through between the played sounds. This lends a clarity to the notes in spite of there being reverb.

Another method is to unplug the reverb return cable from the reverb tank, fit it with a female RCA to male 1/4 inch plug, and plug it into the Normal channel input. Then plug your guitar into the Vibrato channel. Now this way, the Vibrato channel is the "no reverb" channel and the Normal channel is doing the reverb - but now you have independent control over the tone of just the reverb, so you can make your guitar sound bright through the Vibrato channel but have the reverb be dark, or guitar more dark but with bright reverb... all kinds of things to explore.

A lot of guitarists really believe the only reason Leo put two inputs (the #2 being -6dB to #1) was for sound check convenience (use #2 for sound check, then sneak it over to #1 for actual playing); but Leo was brilliant - there are dozens of tricks to be done when you have two channels with two inputs each.

[Ray175]

+1 for "ducking". This is the exact reason I added the T-Rex Ducktails delay to my pedalboard. Adjustable level of response to pick attack is a real eye (ear?) opener the first time you try it.

[LukeReinhart]

Thanks for all the suggestions!

A lot to experiment with, both with reverb and also with delays. I'm more interested in just playing, with a straight sound with few or no effects, but as I have some delays, it seems to make sense to at least give it a go. My amps (both with reverb) are a Mambo solid state combo, with 2 reverb controls, and a boutique Fender valve (tube) clone, with spring reverb and just one level control.

I tend to prefer players like Kenny Burrell, Joe Pass and the old school guys in terms of tone. I do like a lot of modern players too, but not so much fusion stuff really.

[vernon]

I rarely play without a little delay to provide some space around the notes. For me generic reverb just makes things muddy... to my ears. The delay setting is adjusted according to the tempo and flow of the music one is playing. YMMV...

[Boston Joe]

Can anybody make any recommendations about delay settings for a clean jazz guitar sound?

I normally just plug into a clean amp with a bit of reverb, using the neck pickup on an archtop guitar. I see a lot of players gigging who seem to use echo / delay to fatten up the sound a bit, or add a bit of ambience. Nothing drastic, no obvious repeats.

Can anybody suggest what kind of settings would work for this, in a reasonably subtle way, and if it is then best to turn the amp reverb off or down?

Thanks - and BTW, I have few old analogue 'bucket brigade' delay pedals, plus a Strymon Timeline. Before I sell these off, I'd like to see if any of them truly add anything in a jazz context.

I use an Earthquaker Dispatch Master, which is a delay and reverb in one pedal. I normally turn off the reverb on whatever amp I'm using and use the reverb from the DM. But I've found that with the delay on, I only need a tiny touch of reverb with it. My dials aren't numbered, but if I were to guess I'd say I have the mix control on the delay section at around 2.5-3, and the mix on the reverb around 0.5. So very low. The effect is subtle, but very definitely there.

[jorgemg1984]

Wow, that's a lot of delay IMHO- 500 ms is 1/2 second. An 1/8 note at a balled tempo, a whole note at a medium swing. Are you using that instead of reverb?

No, I also use reverb, shorter delays tend to sound like slapback, which I don't like. If you use the mix low enough, the long delay will stay out of the way.

[Papawooly]

If I'm soloing, I like a small amount of delay, ~30-50mS with very low (15%) feedback.

What this small delay does is make the signal appear to be much louder as it is slightly displaced from the
original tone, it is a very effective studio trick.

Also do the same thing on main vocals through a monitor (not on the mains) as I can hear my
vocals much better, without any increase of stage volume (which can get out of control real fast).