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I gigged for years in a band with two horns, electric bass and drums (which rarely used a PA- we balanced ourselves against the horns) using a 5e3 tweed Deluxe clone. Worked fine, never had the volume above 3 and with that I had the guitar volume knob at about 7-8. Those amps are like 12-15W. It has a Cannabis Rex which is a very efficient speaker and maximizes the clean headroom of the amp.
Originally Posted by Jonathan0996
"Watts" means fairly little in terms of volume. Tube amps and solid state amps are different in terms of wattage ratings versus volume. Within those two cateories, one amp that is rated at 20W may be as loud or louder than an amp rated at 100W, depending on the efficiency of the amplifier and the sensitivity of speaker. I have a 400W solid state amp that is cleaner louder than the 5E3, but not usefully louder (they both get "too loud" at full cry). And I have a Roland Cube 60 that can get "too loud" like the other two. It is just not as simple as saying "you need a 50W amp" or "a 100W amp." That said, a 5W amp of any variety is not likely to be loud enough for the playing situation that the OP described.
To the OP, consider the cube 60. Light, reliable, lots of different sounds for different genres of music, and IMHO better sounding than the Micro Cube and many of the other amps you listed. Extremely versatile amps, here in the US readily found used for $200 or less; maybe £150-175 in the UK if the value proposition holds.
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07-14-2018 11:26 AM
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Cunamara is full of wisdom, here. Amp power, cabinet design (open or closed back), size and number of speakers, tube or transistors, all combine to determine how effectively loud an amp will be.
In practice, a 20 watt Fender Deluxe Reverb is about as loud as a 100 watt Polytone Mini Brute...IME. The DR will have a bit less headroom on big chords, but it will be comparable in volume to the MB.
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People here seem to be all over the charts, some recommending products that have been discontinued years ago. While Henriksen and DV Mark represent the cutting edge, the Bud features a 6,5" and the Little Jazz a 8" speaker. Great products, yet depending on the music you make, they just may not move enough air. Bud's Eminence Beta weighs the same as a substantially larger Neo speaker. DV Mark's Neoclassic 12 tips the scales at just 1.5 kg, explaining why their poplar plywood cabinets can be so light.
If you're after some serious weight loss without sacrificing a full-blown speaker, you might want to look at a modern head-cabinet combination. VOX MV 50 Clean - 550 g. Quilter 101R - 900 g. DV Mark Micro 50 - 1.9 kg. My TOOB cabinets, loaded with a 12" Jensen Tornado Neo speaker, weigh 3.9-4.6 kg depending on the model. Add the weights up, allowing a separate reverb for the VOX, and you'll be in the ballpark of 5.0-6.5 kg, and still loud enough for most sensible purposes.
TOOB
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I have a ZT Lunchbox which sits in a closet. I know other people like it, but to me, it may be the worst piece of gear I ever bought. I can't get a sound I like out of it at any volume and pedals didn't help. And, I think I'm pretty easy to please.
I haven't played any of the amps on your list, but I have played some that are in the general ball park.
Roland Cube 40XL is small, inexpensive and not very heavy. I've played an outdoor gig with an octet and it was loud enough.
I regularly gig with a JC55 which weighs 26 lbs and I've never had to turn it up very far. Roland now sells a reissue JC40 or similar which might be worth considering if it's within your budget.
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...on two points. First, the Lunchbox - same verdict. Plus, it's quite heavy for the size. The acoustic version with on-board reverb could work better for jazz, but overall, new micro-amps sound better. No-one's talking of the Pignose either.
Second, people tend to exaggerate their powet needs. Jazz isn't the loudest kind of music, and that applies to drummers, too. You can defend your airspace with 15-40W in most cases. Moreover, a sensitive speaker requires substantially less power to sound the same. The perceived differences in loudness may emanate from this rather than tube vs. solid-state. To me, a watt is a watt, irrespective.
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Actually,the entire world uses the metric system except the United States of America, and to some degree Liberia and Myanmar. Originally Posted by Stanford J17
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I primarily use a JazzKat Tomkat amp. Lately, it has been in the shop more than on my gigs. My backup is a Polytone. Originally Posted by Kunji
Hey everyone!
I've been researching these forums a lot and I know a lot has already been posted here (but maybe there's new info!), but rather than looking for more suggestions I'd need some help deciding on a perfect amp. My issue is that youtube videos are mostly useless and awful to listen to, and that there aren't many of these amps available for testing where I live, so I have no other option but to rely on people's opinions.
I already own a '78 Fender Pro Reverb which is amazing, but it's heavier than me and basically just an overkill for a lot of the venues I play in. So I'm looking for something light and portable, preferably less than 15 kilos. I mostly play modern jazz, both clean and overdriven sounds, lots of effects, but I also often play folk music, funk, pop and rock, so it has to be versatile. Sound is a priority, but unfortunately I can't afford stuff like Henriksen or Mambo. Portability is important too, and even better if it's battery operated, so I can sell my Vox Mini3 G2 - but it's not a necessity.
I've been looking at the following amps:
Yamaha THR10 (there's 3 of them though!)
DV Mark Little Jazz
Roland Micro Cube
Kustom Tube 12 or Defender 15
Vox Pathfinder 10
Ibanez TSA15
Monoprice 5-Watt
VHT Special 6
Fender Pro Junior III or IV (no idea about the difference)
Fame GTA-40
Kustom Sienna 30
As I said, I'd need it for smaller gigs, sometimes with percussion or a drummer that plays on brushes, and suitable to run with pedals. The guitars I use are Epiphone Les Paul, Fender Strat, Ibanez semi hollow-body and an electric nylon hybrid (like a Godin), so the amp can be acoustic as well. I don't care if there's no effects, just an EQ would be fine, and I don't want it to break-up and distort by itself, I want to use the pedals for all of that
So any opinions and comparisons are welcome, thanks so much for your help!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Don't forget the british who are still using both metric and imperial..
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Here in the UK we use both. Originally Posted by dconeill
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One more note on bud headroom.
The other night I was playing guitar in one combo, and bass in the other, in a concert hall with excellent acoustics that seated about 200. I really wanted to do this with one amp, and there was the luxury of a sound check the night before. So I tested playing bass on the bud (original 6.5 inch speaker model) at the sound check and had good results.
At the event I had the bud under my chair for both combos. My bass is a P bass dialed in to sound as much like a URB as possible. The combo I played bass with was a six piece with a not-very-loud drummer. The other band, where I played guitar, was a 20 piece big band. Turned up less than halfway on the bass, less than that on the guitar, no headroom issues at all.
No issues with either band. I asked people in the audience about levels and SQ, and got good feedback.
Loud bar, loud drummer, bigger room, maybe a different story for the bass. I would have a lot of confidence playing guitar with the bud in just about any venue, though.
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Take a look at any of the Fishman line.
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ZT Lunchbox and some pedals. You'll want a reverb and some sort of preamp pedal to give it some "amp" flavor, like a Tech 21 Blonde.
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There's some interesting science around differences between tube/ valve and SS amp behaviour, which can explain why tube watts can sound louder...it's to do with the fact that valve amps push proportionately greater power into higher and some lower ( resonance point) frequencies as the load ( ie speaker) impedence rises, thus sounding louder in the bass and treble frequencies per nominal watt, whereas SS amps don't do that. "Current feedback' SS amps attempt to emulate this valve amp behaviour, with partial success. Originally Posted by Gitterbug
Too geeky to go into further detail here. In any event, I agree that subjectively a 20W valve amp can compete with a 100W SS amp, pushing similarly-efficient speakers.
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I build this amp specifically for jazz guitar. High quality clean sound, 11 Kg, all tube preamp and effect send, class D 150 watts RMS on 8 Ohms poweramp, double switchable master volume, high quality Accutronics digital reverb, recording out and stand by switch that allow you to use it without speaker sound. Available in all type of configuration: 1x10-1x12-2x12 and head version. Feel free to contact me for any other kind of information.
Amplifications
video sample:
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I don't think many people run their amps at full volume, regardless of the wattage or tube/transistor components. I just turn it up to "loud enough". Thus a 20W tube amp can certainly compete with a 200W solid state amp for volume with me, because I won't be turning either of them up to near maximum volume. For many tube amps, anything past 50% volume doesn't actually increase the volume, it just increases distortion and overtones. I have a couple of 200W solid-state amps, and I don't turn them up to 50% in most cases. I also have a 35W tube amp, and it seldom goes above 3 on the knob. It does have 2 speakers, which move a lot more air than the single speaker in my cabinet driven by the solid-state heads. That makes a difference, I think. There are many factors in play, but I think if both amps are driving the same cabinet, the higher wattage amp will get louder if turned up to near max volume.
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It's true, but 20-watt tubes are not enough to have enough headroom. If you play in very small places, guitar and vocals ok, but in a pub with bass and drums, if you want clean at adequate volumes, there's nothing to do. I tell you this because the amp I produce comes from many customers requests that ask for something transportable and with enough power. I work a lot with jazz musicians, I am a luthier and I build both guitars and amplifiers. I sold this amp also to Twin amp Fender owners, especially for the weight of course
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Loudness of the amp also depends on the efficiency of the speaker... that can make a massive difference.
Something like a JBL D130 (extremely efficient) would be crazy loud even with 15 watts hitting it. You'd get a decent bit of headroom just from that speaker efficiency.
Conversely, players will deliberately select inefficient speakers such that power tube overdrive can be achieved at lower volumes.
In regards to the above amps I can vouch for the DV Mark Little Jazz - surprisingly loud for its size. It's totally different to a Fender for example in terms of tone (no mid-dip).
Quilter amps might be another option worth pursuing - they're voiced a bit more like a Fender amp (similar but different...). I have an Aviator Twin Ten combo, but they make some small heads that have loads of power and weigh very little.
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kind of an old thread to revive. Originally Posted by nopedals
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Amps are kinda fun tho
Finding the right combo (pun) of sound
power size weight expense etc .... for you
I just found mine just recently
(TC bam 200 amp + Baby Toob speaker)
(My Toob has an Eminance Alphalite 6 in it
I believe that's what Hennriksen put in the Bud/Blu currently
my rig is way lighter tho at 6.5 lbs)
yeah that , fat SS amp into a high power small speaker thing
works great for me ....
I love it
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Another solution: jazzreverb head version, 5.5 lbs
I wanted to make a clarification on the speakers, it should be considered that the sound we get is given by the sum of the choices we make, not all the speakers sound good with all amps, efficiency aside, we always need to find the right match between amp and speaker. the same amp played with 2 different speakers gives completely different sound results and this is not taken into consideration by many.
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Tc Electronic BAM200 + TOOB. Lightest rig ever. I’ve played this combination more in the last 6 months than my Mesas. Even at home.
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yeah I'm loving mine too Originally Posted by dtfan4ever
which Toob are you using ?
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My favorite small amp for like 20 years is a Fender Blues jr.
Why? It never let me down on a gig, it sounds great for what I'm playing – on stage, at home and in the studio, it's quiet (no hum or hiss) – it's also portable and affordable.
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I had a polytone mini brute with the 12” speaker. Ran a Line 6 M9 through it for pop gigs. It was always the best sound for whatever I was playing. I love my current quilter aviator 112, but it is not quite as good as that was. You can hear the overdrive on the ‘what is hip’ video I posted in another thread (season’s greetings). I always put the amp in front of me leaned back like a monitor. Perfect setup for a loud horn band with a good sound man.
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I have two. One 12” bass model and one 12” guitar model. I can’t remember the exact models, but will amend this post with the details later. Originally Posted by pingu
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