Poor man's Fender tweed amps

**Tal_175** · 08-27-2018, 12:02 PM

Hello amp gurus out there. I love the tones of Fender tweed amps. Champ's and Deluxe's in particular. It'd be hard to choose between them. But then it'll be harder to just drop 10 grands and get both vintage. Or even 5 grands and get the reissues. Besides I don't have space for a ton of amps. So that got me thinking. Please give your opinions on the following options and compare them. I'm open to consider other similar options that I don't know about. My main amp is a Princeton Reverb reissue with a 12 inch alnico speaker by the way and it's great.
1- Amp-in-a-box tweed pedal. Like Wampler tweed '57 plugged into the 12 inch Princeton. Will it get me there pretty much? Other better pedals out there for this?
2- A switchable tweed head, like this one: Tweed Royal w/ Head Cabinet – Build Your Own Clone plugged into my (8 ohm) Princeton cab. Would this work well? Can you recommend others? Would a separate cab be necessary.
3- Separate heads for Champ and Deluxe. Again using the Princeton cab. Any recommendations for heads? Would using Princeton as a cab be a bad idea?
4- Cheaper tweed clones. Any recommended makers?
5- Build your own kits? Recommendations?
What's the best option? Other good options?
Thanks.

**Papawooly** · 08-27-2018, 01:38 PM

... I'm thinking you are a bit high on those prices...

A Tweed Champ for $999
Fender '57 Custom Champ 5W 1x8 Tube Guitar Amp Lacquered | Reverb

Here's a Deluxe Tweed for $2995
Fender Deluxe Amp 1951 Tweed | Killer Vintage Guitars | Reverb

I would buy the original... That '51 Deluxe is MONEY!!!

**vernon** · 08-27-2018, 02:09 PM

Build it yourself. Save money and learn in the process. I bought Boothill 5f1 kit and lacquered tweed cab for $400 or so. If I can do it, you can do it. Tweed Champ is the easiest circuit to begin with.

**Herbie** · 08-27-2018, 03:04 PM

I have never played an original tweed amp nor a reissue but about a year ago I built my first tube amp, Tweed Proluxe clone (Tweed Deluxe preamp plus Tweed Pro power amp = 6L6 tubes).

Great project, I recommend!

I have also a basic Tweed Deluxe clone. Still I don’t have separate cabs for them but one oversized Princeton cab with Weber 12F150 in it.

If I want to play Tweed Deluxe, I put it in. If I need 20-30W clean power, I take the 5E3 out and put the Proluxe in. Just like one of Your options. Saves room.

So don’t waste time, just do it!

**Tal_175** · 08-27-2018, 03:38 PM

Thanks for the good suggestions so far. You guys are convincing me to get a build your own kit. I have some experience building electric guitars so I'm not very intimidated by it. Any recommended kits?

**Tal_175** · 08-27-2018, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Papawooly

... I'm thinking you are a bit high on those prices...

A Tweed Champ for $999
Fender '57 Custom Champ 5W 1x8 Tube Guitar Amp Lacquered | Reverb

Here's a Deluxe Tweed for $2995
Fender Deluxe Amp 1951 Tweed | Killer Vintage Guitars | Reverb

I would buy the original... That '51 Deluxe is MONEY!!!

Sorry I should have clarified, I was speaking in terms of Canadian dollars

USD is about 30% higher in value.
The Deluxe on the linked page looks to be a smaller amp. Must be one of the very early models. I was looking at these earlier:
1956 Fender Deluxe Tweed Pre-CBS Narrow Panel Vintage Tube | Reverb
Vintage Fender Deluxe 1955 Tweed 5E3 Small Cabinet | Reverb
Fender Tweed Deluxe 5E3 15 Watt 1x12 Combo Amplifier | Reverb

Champs are a little cheaper but it seems like getting both amps vintage can get pretty expensive. Though they will hold their value probably.

**Papawooly** · 08-27-2018, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

Sorry I should have clarified, I was speaking in terms of Canadian dollars

USD is about 30% higher.
The Deluxe on the linked page looks to be a smaller amp. Must be one of the very early models. I was looking at these earlier:
1956 Fender Deluxe Tweed Pre-CBS Narrow Panel Vintage Tube | Reverb
Vintage Fender Deluxe 1955 Tweed 5E3 Small Cabinet | Reverb
Fender Tweed Deluxe 5E3 15 Watt 1x12 Combo Amplifier | Reverb

Champs are a little cheaper but it seems like getting both amps vintage can get pretty expensive. Though they will hold their value probably.

Holy Cow!! Those are high $$ for sure, Now you have me AAS-ing for one!!

**stevo58** · 08-27-2018, 04:54 PM

If you are concerned about resale down the road, then you buy Fender, period. Either vintage or (used) new production. A very few other companies also can be considered - Victoria, for example; or well-known custom builders.

If you are going to build an amp, a tweed Champ is the perfect start. It has few components, and you get a useful bit of gear.

I don’t want to discourage you here, I just want you to go into this with your eyes open.

Before you dive in, you should be aware of a few things. I’m going to assume you don’t have much experience with electronics; forgive me if that is incorrect.

First, learn how to solder. Build a couple of pedals from kits so you can learn how to cleanly solder, and a bit about electronics. It’s better to do this with a $35 kit than a $600 amp kit. It will save you debugging time down the road if you can make clean solid joints.

Second, realize you will be working with a live amp. This means 300-400 volts DC. You have to be comfortable with this potentially lethal situation. You should familiarize yourself with how to work with high voltage. There are many guides on the web. You have to keep in mind at all times as you build the amp that a mistake could be potentially lethal.

I don’t want to scare you from trying your hand, but my impression is many people build without keeping this in mind, and I see photos of many amps I would never plug in without a thorough check first. Frightening stuff. Heck, when I look at photos of my first amp, it scares me. By my third I was already much better at it.

You will make mistakes and have to debug your amp, which can be frustrating. Remember: if you hook it up correctly, it will work. If it doesn’t work, you didn’t hook it up correctly.

You may assemble it correctly, and it may make all sorts of noise that you don’t like. This is because, in addition to connecting everything up, lead dress counts. You have to be aware of current flow.

But if you have a bit of a technical bent, it is not difficult to build a Champ or a tweed Deluxe, and they are good sounding, useful amps. Early Wes recordings were made with a tweed Deluxe.

I’ve never built a kit, as I prefer to pick my own components, but Boothill has a good rep, as does Mojotone, TAd (basically Mojotone), Mission, and others. Make sure you get good instructions (which means not Weber). In Europe consider Tube Town.

There are many good amp builders forums out there. One of the best is the Hoffman forum (el34world.com). Doug is also my first choice for parts when I order in the US. In Europe (where I live) I buy most of my stuff from Dirk at Tube Town.

Good luck. You can’t build just one. I’m finishing up my 35th (a Vibro Champ Reverb for a player in Nashville) and gearing up for my 36th (a 5b6 with 6v6s for me).

Steven

**Tal_175** · 08-27-2018, 05:07 PM

Very useful post thanks.
I have some experience with this stuff. I built an electric guitar (Strat) recently and I've replaced pickups/electronics in archtops and what not. But I'd still approach this with extreme care if I choose to build an amp. I'll check out the amp kit sellers you mentioned.

**Herbie** · 08-27-2018, 06:23 PM

The Weber has kits too, I have no experience how good:

Kits - AMPS

I was and am lucky to have some more experienced friends and a encouraging local tech who have adviced me countless times during my build ans especially during fine tuning (I think I changed the values if ALL of the capacitors to get it voiced for my guitars and ears).

Of course it is good to be more cautious than adventurous but when You understand that, the build is a great adventure.

And I recommend You to at least try to cover a cab with tweed! Shellacking the tweed is addicting!

**mad dog** · 08-27-2018, 08:09 PM

I can highly recommend Jim at L'il Dawg amps. I bought a used Dlux, very impressed with this amp. Mine is a 1x15. He'll make them any way you want.
5E3 Tweed Deluxe - The D-Lux

**morroben** · 08-27-2018, 08:40 PM

I have the Mission tweed deluxe kit. Mine was built by someone else with a bunch of mods. It started acting up, I couldn't figure out the mods, and just tore it down and started over from scratch off a 'regular' 5E3 layout. Now it sounds great. And once I eliminated the headache of the mods, the build was quite simple.
The previous comment about resale is spot-on, but once you have a killer sounding amp with the personal connection of having built it, I doubt you'll want to sell it. Being stuck with a nice amp isn't the end of the world.

**Sam Sherry** · 08-27-2018, 09:45 PM

Last year I built this 5E3 kit on EBay, currently $255 including tubes and transformers. Here's the thread.

It still works every day. I'm still glad I built it.

In short words: If I can do it, you can do it better!

**stevo58** · 08-28-2018, 01:30 AM

Weber kits are fine, the problem is, you get a schematic and a layout and that’s it. For a first time builder it’s sub-optimal.

For a first build I recommend something with detailed instructions.

steven

**Cobra** · 08-28-2018, 05:13 AM

I would suggest Trinity Amp kits...

Kits | Trinity Amps

They're in Canada, & have excellent support for kit builds.

TH · 08-28-2018, 07:42 AM

Stewmac has kits. You can build a champ or a deluxe. Comes with all you need, all high quality and detailed step by step clear illustrated instructions.
A good place to get your start.
Amplifier Kits | stewmac.com

A little pricier than the others mentioned here but they're really reliable and have support from their staff on hand.

David

**stevo58** · 08-28-2018, 09:02 AM

The StewMac kits have good instructions and component choice (Heyboer transformers - good).
I’m not sure what speaker that is, other than it has a ceramic magnet. Based on the instructions I’d say you could do a lot worse.

steven

**Tal_175** · 08-28-2018, 09:14 AM

Thanks for all the suggestions. You guys/gals convinced me to get a kit and build the amp. One question though. I just want to build a head, not a combo. Kits all come with a metal chassis. However it's not clear to me if they are only for use inside a cabinet or they can also be used as stand alone heads. Do they provide sufficient heat insulation? Can you just put them on top of your cabinet without the heat damaging the vinyl over time?

**stevo58** · 08-28-2018, 10:35 AM

Don’t worry about the heat. Heads and cabs have been in constant use since the early 60s. Your head will have feet on it, so there will be an air gap there anyway.

Tweeds can be built as heads. You have two orientations: either flat on the bottom, with tubes parallel to the bottom of the cabinet, and controls in front; or controls on top and tubes hanging. It’s up to you.

Look at the Weber cabs; they sell tweed head cabs. Get some ideas there.

And ‘tweed’ isn’t vinyl; it’s twill fabric. Well, you can get tweed-patterned Tolex.

Steven

**rintincop** · 08-28-2018, 11:36 AM

I don’t care to build one. How about an already assembled budget tube amp?

**Tal_175** · 08-28-2018, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by stevo58

Don’t worry about the heat. Heads and cabs have been in constant use since the early 60s. Your head will have feet on it, so there will be an air gap there anyway.

Tweeds can be built as heads. You have two orientations: either flat on the bottom, with tubes parallel to the bottom of the cabinet, and controls in front; or controls on top and tubes hanging. It’s up to you.

Look at the Weber cabs; they sell tweed head cabs. Get some ideas there.

And ‘tweed’ isn’t vinyl; it’s twill fabric. Well, you can get tweed-patterned Tolex.

Steven

Sure I'm very familiar with cabs and heads. My question is regarding the kits that people are suggesting in this thread and the metal chassis they come with, such as this one:
Trinity Triton Kit | Trinity Amps

My question was whether these metal casings are for inside a cabinet only or can they be used as separate heads. Do I need to build or buy a head cab unit in other words?
Regarding vinyl. Yes, tweed isn't vinyl but my Princeton is. As I said in the OP I'm considering using my Princeton as the cab.

**stevo58** · 08-28-2018, 03:29 PM

Well think about it for a minute. In your Princeton, the tubes are hanging upside-down from a metal chassis bolted to the top of the cab. The tubes radiate heat. Some of that heat is radiated directly onto the back panel, only millimeters away, covered with Tolex. Some of the heat radiates into the metal chassis, and from there through the wood of the cab, and into the Tolex.

Has the Tolex on your Princeton separated from the wood?

Now let’s say you have a Tweed Deluxe head sitting on top of the Princeton cabinet. The tubes are oriented horizontally. Some of the heat radiates downward from the tubes, into the wood of the cabinet, through the tweed covering, across the air gap, and into the Tolex of the Princeton. Do you think it will cause a problem if the Princeton itself never did? Recall that a tweed Deluxe has two tubes fewer than a Princeton Reverb and radiates less heat.

Regarding the chassis, yes you have to put it in a cab. It would be too dangerous otherwise, as one side of the chassis is completely open and live wires would be easily accessible. I wouldn’t stand on the same stage as someone playing through an open amp; you would be tempting the gods.

I doubt you can balance the head on top of your Princeton unless you set the Princeton on its side.

**Tal_175** · 08-28-2018, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by stevo58

Regarding the chassis, yes you have to put it in a cab.

Yeap, this answers my question. So I need a separate head cab. The metal casings that come with the kit aren't meant to be used as heads by themselves.

**morroben** · 08-28-2018, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

My question was whether these metal casings are for inside a cabinet only or can they be used as separate heads. Do I need to build or buy a head cab unit in other words?

Yes, the chassis needs to go in a cabinet. Head cabs are available these days, though they weren't available that way originally. Or you could build one.

edit: Nevermind, looks like you got it sorted while I was typing. So this post was redundant. Editing it probably didn't help...

**Tal_175** · 08-29-2018, 03:14 PM

After looking into the kits suggested in this thread, I reached the conclusion that from the cost point of view tweed champ is not worth building. These kits including speaker and cab will come to 600 to 800 USD depending on the seller. Fender custom tweed champ 57 can be obtained for 1000 USD brand new with much better resale value down the road if I want to. People think Fender's price for Champ is outrageous for an SE amp, but kit sellers seem to justify Fender's price.
Tweed deluxe is another story. Kits for deluxe aren't that much more expensive than champs around 800 USD. Wheres Fender deluxe is 2000USD. I think getting a kit for Deluxe makes more sense. I was thinking of building a head only but none of the kit providers seem to offer a head for Champ on their websites.