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I've searched around, but all I've seen for sale are for vintage 50's ES175's.
Any recommendations appreciated. I'm set on trying to purchase a Brazilian Rosewood bridge and saddle and not some other Rosewood.
Thanks in advance!
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09-24-2018 05:08 PM
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Buy an all original 50s ES-125 and steal its bridge and saddle...
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Isn't the geometry of 50's or 60's bridges different than modern bridges?
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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I had posted Ebay links to some 1950's ES-175 bridges but after rereading your post, it looks like you want a modern or new BZ wood bridge. So I deleted my post. If you want a new bridge I suspect your are out of luck unless you can have one made .
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Don't know about that, 2bop. I was joking as I know you are above taking a bridge from a 50s ES-125. Steve Holst is in your area. Perhaps he can help? Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
I wrote and deleted a long reply suggesting D. caerensis (Braz Kingwood) or D. spruceana ( Amazon RW). They are technically Brazilian RWs, just not D. nigra. Gilmer Wood, Cook Wood have ready supplies of them as small blanks. I would try Honduran RW or Guatemalan RW or Cocobolo, too. Kingwood has a glassy tap tone, just not "historically correct" for the Les Paul makeover fellows.
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Aha, double standards! Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
Lols
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It is not safe to go out anymore...
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I have found 50's/60's Gibson bridges work just fine on the Gibsons of today. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
The demand for a Brazilian Rosewood archtop bridge is probably small, therefore no production examples exist. A luthier can make one, it will cost a few dollars to be sure.
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I will have to look but might have some Brizilian Rosewood bridge blanks. I am not in the place to check right now but will in a few hours. SS is right these are not cheap. I assume you have the one in came with to use a pattern?
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the dealer on ebay selling vintage 50's BR bridges writes that the geometry on the 50's bridges is different.
edit - It was suggested so many of these BR bridges ended up in luthier draws when the switch was made to TOM's that they were plentiful. Well, obviously not.
RE a template does this work? I can fit it on this end.
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Checking and i have one bass block that is Brazilian and the saddle block looks Indian. Cannot be absolutely certain so have to say sorry. Lots of ebony though a better choice in my opinion but not critical.
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Thank you for checking. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
I got stuck on searching for a BR bridge when Stringswinger recommended a BR bridge to bring out the best in an ES175.
ES-175 stock volume pots value
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2B, Why would the geometry be different? So long as the post holes in a Brazilian saddle fit your TOM base, you should be good to go. The necks on the early 175's were a bit wider, but the pickups are the same size. It may be possible that the string spread is too wide on the older bridges. Someone with more knowledge will have to opine.
On my 1997 ES-175 and my 2017 ES-175 figured, I am running non Gibson Brazilian bridge saddles (that are also non compensated) that were given to me by Vinny. They fit my stock TOM bases just fine, have warmed up the tone just fine and intonate just fine (even with the pinned bridge on the 2017. They look like they were made by a luthier and may well be some other wood like cocobolo or Madagascar rosewood.
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If it helps deter you, I replaced original Brazilian rosewood saddles on my '47 L-5, '47 S400, and '63 ES-175 with ebony/ebony/TOM respectively. I think the replacements are all better than the originals on my particular guitars.
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Vinny was a fan of Bill Gagnon bridges too wasn't he. Gagnon made bridges from all sorts of exotic woods. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Thanks for the input. Okay, in that case I've a Gagnon bridge made for a 16" L4 style guitar made of African blackwood (thanks Patrick) - I'll give that a shot
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Actually those are factory Gibson wood saddles from the late 1970’s. They didn’t compensate the B on their wood saddles in those days. Norlin saddles my friend. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Would you consider this? I have one on my Sadowsky JH.
True-Tone Bridge Archives - Sadowsky Guitars
Swapped the stock RW bridge from my 175 VOS for a TOM, which, along with re-gluing some loose bracing, turned it into my favorite archtop. My puppy got hold of the RW bridge, or I would have been happy to give it to you.
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Jabberwocky,
Not funny, not appropriate.
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How about that. Those Norlin saddles are highly figured and the wood is reddish. What guitars did they come off of? In the late 70's, they were using TOM's on 175s and Ebony on the carved archtops. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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Here is one of the saddles Vinny gave me (Thanks Bro!) that is on my 2017 ES-175 Figured. With the stock titanium TOM, this guitar was too bright and I was going to unload it. I put this bridge saddle on and she is now a keeper!:
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Looking at Gibson's production records from '53 (after they switched back to a double-footed bridge base) to 1969 (in @'70? they went to Indian rosewood), not counting old inventory that they continued to use for god-knows-how-long, it looks like in excess of 70,000 Gibson archtop guitars were equiped with these Brazilian rosewood bridges. My guess is that there are tons of them out there. They are very similar to each other in construction and dead easy to adapt to any ES-175, new or old. All of them are "vintage" as opposed to "used" at this point.
I personally don't think thay have any noticeable effect on tone compared to Indian rosewood on a heavy plywood guitar like the ES-175, but YMMV. I have a box of them somewhere around here - maybe I'll go look for them.
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Gibson used to sell them in the 70’s in a black package with or without the base. I had them notched. Bought them at Gelb back in the day. In the 70’s the TOMs were horrible. They rattled and buzzed from super loose tolerances. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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I have replaced the TOMs on my two figured 175's (a 1997 and a 2017) with rosewood saddles (they look like Brazilian rosewood, but with Vinny's info, maybe not) and I have replaced the TOMs on my L-5 WESMO and my Super 400CES with Ebony saddles. In all 4 cases, the tone was warmed up. Just the way I like it. Those TOMs will stay in their respective case pockets as long as I own those 4 guitars.
My 1948 D'Angelico Style B came to me with an Ivory saddle (it has the second owners name inscribed underneath, he was the guitar player for the Boston Pops for many years). It was a very bright guitar (I am guessing it was carved out of an old piano key). I replaced it almost immediately with an ebony saddle which darkened the tone considerably. Strangely enough the base was rosewood and it looked odd, so I replaced the ebony with a rosewood saddle (East Indian) and not only did it look better, it darkened the tone even more. I heard a difference between the Ebony saddle and the Rosewood saddle for certain. But that is on a carved archtop with a very loud acoustic voice. On a 175, the difference might not be as great.
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The density of the saddle material goes down from metal to ebony to rosewood, with metal being the most dense.
This means that rosewood, being the least dense, transfers the most string vibration to the soundboard, and metal the least.
While you may find that conclusive, it's not. Less vibration in the soundboard means that more is retained in the strings themselves. And this produces more perceived sustain and depth of tone, especially if pickups are involved. More vibration transferred to the soundboard means that the strings retain less energy, with less sustain and amplitude (along with changes in the harmonic content that I can't explain). But of course, you get more of the sound from within the box.
So it's a balancing act between which part vibrates - the box or the strings - and the volume, harmonic content, and sustain that results. There is no objective "best" here.
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Roger, when it comes to guitar tone, everything is subjective.
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