Eb tuning - Do jazz artists use it?

**heavyblues** · 11-28-2009, 11:20 PM

I am used to Eb tuning on my current guitar, but I just bought a hollowbody. Since I will be memorizing countless modes and chords, I want to make sure I stick to ONE tuning!!

1) Do any of the bigtime jazz players like wes, pass, benson, metheny, scofield etc use Eb tuning?

2) I am going to be using 13's, so I would not mind some slack!

3) I hear it helps for Eb, Bb and F keys which are pretty Jazzy, is this more reason to do it?

4) any other considerations or things you forum members have noticed for choosing or NOT choosing Eb tuning over E tuning?

I would appreciate any little hints, experiences, observations, whatever.

**derek** · 11-28-2009, 11:42 PM

Not to say it doesn't happen, but other than guys like SRV, I have never heard of a jazz guy tuning to Bb. As far as countless modes and chords, there are really only 3 scales that get used for modes, major, harmonic and melodic minors. 7 modes each = 21 total modes. Not all of these get used to my knowledge. Also, I would ignore modal thinking until you get other improvisational devices down.

**randyc** · 11-28-2009, 11:46 PM

I'm mystified

been around a long time but never heard this before.

I've always tuned 12-strings to D but just to reduce neck stress and make fretting a bit easier. Why would you want to tune your guitar to Eb when playing standards or jazz ? Seems to me that it would cause way too much confusion when playing in other common keys (especially if one is transposing "on the fly"). Or maybe you don't read (charts) all that frequently, would that be the case ?

Please explain the advantages, thanks.
randyc

**heavyblues** · 11-28-2009, 11:52 PM

Honestly, I don't have good reasons besides wanting more slack in the strings since I am using 13's(for easier fretting), and possibly a more unique tone? Looks like I should ditch this whole Eb tuning concept. Its annoying anyway, everytime i look upa chord or mode, i have to transpose it one note!! So what you guys are telling me is that the Eb tuning isn't for jazz, but moreso for the SRV's and Hendrix's that want an easier time accomodating their singing? Makes sense now.

**JohnW400** · 11-28-2009, 11:53 PM

If you showed up on my gig where I'm the leader and I saw that you were tuned to Eb ... It would be your last gig with me.

Seriously though, You could do it but you damn well better know the actual notes you are playing and not have to transpose them should someone ask you what notes you're playing.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 11-29-2009, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by heavyblues

Honestly, I don't have good reasons besides wanting more slack in the strings since I am using 13's(for easier fretting)

Just cowboy up and tune it right. I've used 14s and lived to tell the tale.

**heavyblues** · 11-29-2009, 12:40 AM

hehehe, thanks guys! JohnW, that was a clear way of putting it. I've already decided E tuning of course. I was just so used to the whole SRV Hendrix Eb tuning, but they arent jazz artists, and I'm sure they did it to help with bends and accomodating voice!

Thread end.

**derek** · 11-29-2009, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by heavyblues

hehehe, thanks guys! JohnW, that was a clear way of putting it. I've already decided E tuning of course. I was just so used to the whole SRV Hendrix Eb tuning, but they arent jazz artists, and I'm sure they did it to help with bends and accomodating voice!

Thread end.

Yes SRV did it to ease the tension on the .13s he played with. Many of us play jazz with heavy strings, but we aren't pulling step and a half bends on them like he did.

**Funkwire** · 11-30-2009, 10:21 AM

There's nothing wrong with tuning in Eb, but there's not much call for it in jazz. OK...none that I know of.

I took part in an open-stage jam once where one of the guitar players was tuned to Eb. I'm positive he did it only because he was told SRV, Van Halen, etc. did it, and "that's how you get that sound".

It took him forever to get on board with everybody. We'd tell him the key, then he'd have to figure how to play it tuned down a half-step. He didn't have a lot of experience, and he was struggling. I finally snapped at him, "Use a capo, or learn how to transpose, or take a seat."

He took a seat...I felt bad for a little while...but not long.

**mr. beaumont** · 11-30-2009, 02:02 PM

the best reason for not tuning down is the fact that a lot of jazz tunes are in "the black keys." this means that on a standard tuned guitar, the open strings are cool extensions, not vanilla roots, fourths and fifths...

**goldglob** · 12-01-2009, 07:07 AM

I go through periods of tuning the guitar I use for playing duos (standards with male or female singers or sax etc) down a semitone, so that I can get to explore all the voicings unique to the pretty well ignored keys of B and Gb (if she's in Bb, I'm in B). I also just love the sound of that low Eb. Having that one extra low note available is satisfying in any key. That low Eb has of course the same pitch as the lowest Eb on a bass (4 string) and so is, in a sense, a 'real' bass note.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 12-01-2009, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by goldglob

That low Eb has of course the same pitch as the lowest Eb on a bass (4 string) and so is, in a sense, a 'real' bass note.

Interesting definition of "real" bass note. I've have to ask a church organist what their definition is, too

**rabbit** · 12-01-2009, 01:48 PM

I'm a heretic.
Amplified jazz is electric music.
They are electric guitars,
regardless of their arched tops.

Lighter strings can be used.
This is what amps. preamps & eq's are for.

By the way, has anyone tried all-nickel strings?
I've heard they're ideal for jazz.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 12-01-2009, 01:49 PM

I'm a heretic, too. Blaze your own trail and don't listen to others, even if they're heretics, too.

**rabbit** · 12-02-2009, 04:08 AM

Watch out BigDaddy, they're fixin' to stone us!

I'd heard of Snake Oil Brand (no joke) all-nickel strings.
Apparently out of business already.

**BMaag** · 12-02-2009, 04:51 AM

I tune my guitar down all the time whether I'm playing blues, straight ahead jazz, fusion, rock, whatever. Mostly I tune down a whole step (to D), but I am also able to transpose on the fly, so I don't get into any sticky situations with horn players or anyone else.

The reason I tune down is not because I don't want to deal with the high tension, though. It gives me more sustain, plus I am in love with the dark sound of the chords in the lower register.

As for whether or not it's appropriate for jazz, it really doesn't matter. It comes down to what you hear in your head. Granted, if you play with other people you'd better know what you are playing or else you'll just frustrate everybody, including yourself.

StraightNoChaser · 12-02-2009, 05:24 AM

Its surely better to learn how to play in Eb,Bb or any other key,as they are common to jazz tunes.Its a better way to learn your fretboard,that way when it comes to modal stuff like 'So What' its less of a problem when it goes 'up' in the B section,etc.

**heycheckit** · 12-02-2009, 10:10 AM

ive tried them

**heycheckit** · 12-02-2009, 10:46 AM

i wonder what other tunings have been used

**mr. beaumont** · 12-02-2009, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by heycheckit

Guitars are made to be tuned to EADGBE - your guitar won't stay in intonation with an Eb tuning. Stevie and Jimi were well... Stevie and Jimi. Not to mention Stevie started using custom built Strats suited for Eb tuning later on in his career.

Of course I've talked to acoustic guitar yuppies who tell me Eb tuning gives their chords a much "fuller" sound. whatever the fuck that means.

that first part's pretty false-- any instrument with an adjustable bridge can be compensated to intone properly. and even on an acoustic guitar without individual saddles, Eb tuning won't bother anything really because the relationship between the strings is the same. Furthermore, people use open tunings on acoustics all the time, and if the intonation problems were so bad, that just wouldn't happen.

as for the Eb tuning sounding fuller, it's a macho thing. All the stevie ray vaughanabees want to use super heavy strings, but they still need to be able to bend that step and a half (and always come out an "artistic" 1/4 step flat) so they tune down. Big strings sound bigger, so it makes sense, but having to inconvenience everyone you play with because your guitar is in Eb is a pain in the ass. If you can transpose on the fly, that's great, but so many of the Eb strat in a hat cats want to play big open strings and jam on a blues in their "E"

sorry, i'm punchy today.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 12-02-2009, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by rabbit

Watch out BigDaddy, they're fixin' to stone us!

I'd heard of Snake Oil Brand (no joke) all-nickel strings.
Apparently out of business already.

Maybe that's just as well. The only thing I ever heard about Snake Oil Strings is that people would order them online and wait forever for the strings to arrive.

**mr. beaumont** · 12-02-2009, 01:05 PM

snake oil's were pretty well heralded over at the tdpri. i did try a set on one of my teles, and they were pretty nice.

but i've learned that folks who think the key to their tone is something as small as a certain brand of strings usually need to spend a little more time in the shed.

**rabbit** · 12-02-2009, 02:10 PM

Busted!

I need more shed time AND
I'm interested in any potential
tone controls. The nickel thing
is new to me.

**mr. beaumont** · 12-02-2009, 02:30 PM

ha, rabbit, don't think i was singling you out!

last night i spent an hour messing around with two amps and a slightly delayed signal in one of them. i better practice two hours today to make up for all of that fiddling!

my jazz mentor used to say, "when you start to sweat the small stuff, you better go break a sweat over the big stuff."